Silence of the Lambs

Chairmen of BAT, JTI and IT

The 3 tobacco companies involved in the restricting of supplies to UK shoppers remain silent. Despite having to have an lnitial Notice from HMRC on large seizures of tobacco for it to be actually classed as a large seizure, the tobacco companies fail to supply any information as to it's actual existance.

Now if they had been issued with such a notice one would think it would be in their own interests to release it. lt would show actual proof that such a seizure by HMRC was factual.

What we are left with is that all 3 companies will have us believe that all 3 had large seizures of their own product. Namely, Golden Virginia, Amber Leaf and Cutters Choice. Also we are led to believe that HMRC didn't release to the press information on at least 3 large seizures! ... yeah, right.

So, Chairman Iain Napier of Imperial Tobacco, President of Japan Tobacco International Pierre de Labouchere and Chairman Richard Burrows of British American Tobacco ... l think we can now add you to the list of organisations who actively or passively harass and intimidate legitimate UK Shoppers.

You now sit with UKBA, HMRC, Government, MSM, ASH and other anti- smoking fascist groups. You should hang your heads in shame but you won't because you think that by your appeasement these groups will be kinder to you. You really must live in cloud cuckooland. l note that none of you got invited to the recent summit on illicit tobacco. Don't you understand? ... they don't want you and yet you want to be their friends? ... hahaha.  You really are beyond belief. Why don't you grow some and make a stand? l won't hold my breath.

In the meantime, us smokers will carry on as before. We are very resolute and won't be broken whether it be by anti-smoking laws, anti-smoking fascists, HMRC, UKBA, Government ... and now you!

You are now are enemy but other tobacco companies will glady take our trade as will man with van. Your actions have done nothing to stop illicit trade whatsoever ... in fact you've increased it whilst stabbing us legitimate shoppers in the back. Most of us will find our legitimate supplies from your competitors but others will now turn to man with van even more. You'll be definitely on his Xmas card list!

You've treated us with utter contempt in the belief that we are stupid ... well, we are not and we WON'T SURRENDER ... unlike you!

Update on Tobacco Companies restricting supply of UK brands

There have been no further responses from the 3 tobacco companies contacted. There was an initial reply from Imperial Tobacco and Japan Tobacco International but none at all from British American Tobacco.

In both the replies got, they refer to HMRC and recent large seizures of tobacco but furnished no details. Despite a great deal of investigation, l can find no details whatsover of these 'large seizures' so l questioned their actual existance. Turns out l was right to do so.

Since April 1st 2009 (good starting date, eh?) HMRC released their approach to 'chain of supply' and what they expected tobacco companies to do about it.

The crux of the 'approach' is to treat tobacco companies like UK shoppers purchasing tobacco from the EU. lf shoppers are stopped with what they consider large but we are still allowed to take them home but are issued with a Notice 1. This states the amount you bought back and warns that if you bring anymore back in a given period it will be confiscated. There are no fixed quantities for what HMRC consider large, it is left for them to decide.

This is basically what they have done to tobacco companies. If the seizures are large,  the tobacco companies will be issued with an Initial Notice (a warning notice) that lasts for 6 months. lf within this period another seizure occurs HMRC will then issue a Penalty Notice with a fine of up to £5 million (this of course can be contested). The only difference is that unlike the Uk shoppers, the tobacco companies have it stated what a large seizure is.

It is 500 sleeves of cigarettes (sleeve = 10 x packets of 20) and 50kg of tobacco or over. Anything under these amounts will not be considered large.

So were the tobacco companies issued with an Initial Notice? lf they were, why no details of such. If they were not, why the restriction of supply?

It doesn't take a genius to note that sales of 500 sleeves of cigarettes and 50kg of tobacco to a shopper are probably not for personal use. Given that tobacco companies and HMRC monitor the sales and distribution of tobacco from the shops, how do such amounts get sold in the first place????

As for Mr Smuggler and the shops, one would think that to guarantee sales and supply that a self-imposed limit of 499 sleeves and 49 kg of tobacco ( or other blatantly obvious methods) would completely nulify the HMRC's 'chain of supply' ???

In the meantime, the UK shopper cannot purchase his 3kg of tobacco as he was not made aware of the impending restriction of supplies. I have no doubt that Mr Smuggler and the shops did have pre-warning and took appropiate action. Our legitimate UK shopper is the only one that suffers ... again!

Another Tobacco Co. reply .... yet more confirmed appeasement

Dear Mr ######
                           Thank you for your recent email address to Pierre de Labouchere and Yasushi Shingai, which has been forwarded on to me for response.I can confirm that JTI has been in discussions with HMRC regarding the supply of Amber Leaf into the Belgium market.  These discussions follow large seizures of product by HMRC in the UK .  Pending the outcomes of these discussions with HMRC, JTI decided to take the precautionary step of stopping the supply of Amber Leaf into this market.This is done regularly by JTI in order to help the authorities dealing with illicit trade.  We know that it can inconvenience loyal customers such as yourself but it is also the only way to ensure that, over time, the product you get is really the product you want to buy.


We are sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you, but please be advised that JTI is in the process of recommencing the supply of Amber Leaf into the Belgium marketplace, so the product should once again be available for purchase in Belgium.


Yours Sincerely,
Michelle McKeown
Vice President Corporate Affairs


Gallaher Ltd ... a member of JTI Companies

Reply

Dear Ms McKeown,
                                 thank you for your reply. However, l must take issue with the content. You say that you are in discussion with HMRC. Are you referring to the threats of HMRC? Namely their documented threat of imposing "fine of up to £5million can be imposed on manufacturers if their products are seized by HMRC as a result of over-supplying the legitimate trade" ?

l and other shoppers recognise the ambiguity of this threat. We are regularly threatened in the same manner when confronted by HMRC .... fines, prison, upto, could, may , if, .... and so on. We take no notice of this threatening intimidation.Unfortunately, many do take notice and let HMRC unjustly take their legitimately bought goods.

l also note that you refer to recent large seizures of 'product' by HMRC in the UK. Specifically, what does 'product' refer to? ... tobacco? cigarettes? liquor? ... or are you/HMRC saying Amber Leaf?

I  am not being pedantic here, it's extremely important considering the conduct of HMRC when they confront us legitimate shoppers (which you never commented on, by the way). Apart from harassment and intimidation we recieve, HMRC are not renown for exactly being honest as documented cases have shown.What seems to bear this out is that the UKBA/HMRC have no publicised  records of large shipments of Amber Leaf, or indeed tobacco, seized this year. As HMRC immediately publish any such seizures (even small seizures) to the press, l find it somewhat strange that there are none .Especially so,  as you seem to have withdrawn Amber Leaf from the Belgium market merely on the face of these undocumented  'large seizures'.

ln your next paragraph you state "the product you get is really the one you want to buy'. This infers that when you say 'illicit goods' you are referring to counterfeit goods? I fail to see how restricting your product Amber Leaf has any impact whatsover on counterfeit goods other than increasing the conterfeit trade to fill the demand you've created.

Given that you state that you constantly monitor your outlets in Belgium.yet you still restrict the product? l can only conclude that you are complying to whatever HMRC tells you, factual or not. You seem to trust the HMRC. I can tell and show you emphatically that this trust is totally unwarranted.

We, your customers, rely on a constant supply of our preferred brand. lf that supply is switched on and off we will find another brand we like that we can depend on to give a constant supply. We smokers don't like changing brands and stick with that brand ... unless we cannot no longer get a supply. If not, we change to another brand that will maintain supply. lt matters not if your brand comes back on the market as our loyalties are now with some other company ... which will probably be one of your EU competitors. What none of us will certainly do is buy any of our tobacco in the UK .... period.

I hope you can clarify these matters.

Regards,
              ##### #######

Reply from Imperial Tobacco ... confirmed appeasement!

Date: Monday, 27 September, 2010, 11:12

Dear Mr. ####,

I received a response to your query from the responsible person in the UK. I do apologize for the delay in our response:

Thank you for your email.

 

As you’ll be aware, in the European Union customers are permitted to buy tobacco products in a certain Member State for personal use and to bring these back to their home State without having to pay additional excise duty on them.

Indicative volumes exist for this. For the UK , the volumes are set at 3,200 cigarettes or 3kg of fine cut tobacco.

HMRC has been checking tobacco products that are brought into the UK from other Member States for some time and has observed that more products than these indicative volumes are often purchased.

Furthermore, it has noted that these are then sold on in the UK , which of course is not permitted.

Imperial Tobacco is totally opposed to illicit trade and has therefore made an agreement with HMRC for a number of years to cooperate on ending these illegal imports.

Fines of up to £5 million can be imposed on manufacturers if their products are seized by HMRC as a result of allegedly over-supplying the legitimate trade overseas.

Demand for Golden Virginia in Belgium , which is popular among English tourists, has recently increased sharply. Imperial Tobacco Belgium has thus decided to freeze the volumes that are sold to wholesalers at the average level in previous months.

We realise that these measures create a significant inconvenience for the Belgian traders who sell these products and legitimate cross-border shoppers. However, our quotas are determined as objectively as possible.

In addition, you make reference in your email to our prices across EU markets.

For the most part, maximum prices are set locally by manufacturers in each market depending on the level of taxation and the overall market conditions.

Kind regards

################Pressereferent

Reemtsma Cigarettenfabriken GmbH An Imperial Tobacco Group CompanyKommunikation und Politik Max-Born-Straße 4 22761 Hamburg 

Reply

Dear ####,
                thank you for your reply although it would have been nice to know who exactly was replying to me. My question about pricing in EU States was to find what your products sell for in various EU states. l find it incomprehensible that you say that you don't know.

Would you please forward the following reply to Mr/Mrs/Ms lncognito

Thank you,
                 #########

l would like to draw your attention to some points.

Indicative limits are suggested limits and not statutory limits.I'm sure you can google the word 'indicative' if you are not sure. Whether indicative limits exist or not has no bearing whatsoever on EU law. Shoppers are allowed to purchase as much as they like for personal use. This is their right as an EU citizen. Simply because amounts are over this indicative limit does certainly not mean that they are smuggled. HMRC hope that by limiting the amounts shoppers purchase makes it not feasible or a substantial inconvenience to shoppers to make multiple trips.

Have you at all considered that your market has increased in the EU is because myself and others like me are telling UK shoppers their rights to shop within the EU so more and more are now doing this? Would it also surprise you that the amounts purchased by shoppers are not in container loads but merely a maximum of a years supply that fits into a suitcase? We are not tourists, we are shoppers. The tourist trade is completely different to the shopping trade which is increasing. Why can't you grasp the concept of this?

You say HMRC has noted that tobacco has been sold in the UK which has been bought in the EU? This beggars the question why haven't HMRC arrested and prosecuted these people instead of simply noting it?

You also state :-" Imperial Tobacco is totally opposed to illicit trade and has therefore made an agreement with HMRC for a number of years to cooperate on ending these illegal imports"  and "Fines of up to £5 million can be imposed on manufacturers if their products are seized by HMRC as a result of allegedly over-supplying the legitimate trade overseas"

Made an agreement and co-operated?  Surely you mean that you were blackmailed and caved into their threats of ..... "a fine up to £5 million can be imposed on manufacturers if their products are seized as a result of allegedly over-supplying the legitimate trade overseas" (you mean EU? overseas has a different meaning entirely)

l've highlighted the important words and any lawyer will tell you the significance of these words or rather insignificance. You see, us shoppers face these threats constantly by HMRC when we bring our legitimate purchases back to the UK. Added to these threats are intimidation, harassment and pure theft but unlike you we stand our ground and say 'No!'
(You omitted in your reply to comment about what shoppers have to suffer in order to purchase tobacco for their own personal legitimate use at the hands of HMRC. Maybe you could ask them about their unethical and unjust tactics used against your customers?)

As for the illegal trade ... are you or your new friends, the HMRC, incapable or incompetent of tracing large shipments like container and lorry loads delivered to your distributors? lt should be relatively simple to do.You say on your own website that you constantly monitor your distributors????

Except that isn't it, is it? The real reason of HMRC is to stop ALL UK brands being sold in the EU in the hope that UK shoppers will then buy their tobacco in the UK. It simply won't happen.... period. All that will happen is that UK smokers will change their preferred brand to a foreign brand and still not pay UK taxes because the amount saved runs into thousands of pounds. ln these hard times anyone that smokes that doesn't do this is plain stupid in my opinion or is physically/financially incapable of shopping abroad..

This will eventually hit your own sales and to be honest l hope it does quickly ... you deserve it in the way you have treat and ignored your loyal customer base. Smokers in the UK will transfer their loyalty to other foreign brands because it is obvious that you don't give a damn about the loyalty afforded to you by your customers over the years. l'm sure your shareholders will understand when they see their returns fall and you have to account for it. Best of luck with that.

l must leave it at that as l have to try and get something out of my back ... the knife your company stabbed me with.

Yours,
           ##########

The sickening appeasement of tobacco companies.

3 letters 3 tobacco companies, British American Tobacco, Imperial Tobacco and Japan Tobacco International regarding their complicity with HMRC to restrict supply of Cutters Choice (BAT), Golden Virginia (IT) and Amber Leaf (JTI)  HRT to Belgium/Lux.

So, in the immortal words of Ernie Wise .... 'This is what was wrote'

---

Dear ## ##### ############,
                                                  can you please explain why you are treating your loyal customers with what only can be described as utter contempt? Myself and others take advantage of EU shopping. lt is one of the few benefits that EU affords it's everyday citizens. Now we are finding that you are restricting availibility of your product, namely ###### ####### HRT, in Belgium and Lux at the bequest of HMRC in the UK.

We, your loyal customers, have to endure intimidation, harassment and indeed downright theft when confronted by HMRC and yet we have never had any help from yourselves in these matters.You have been completely silent regarding this but we lived with that because we understood you are not willing to question and confront HMRC.

However, it comes somewhat of a shock, and indeed insult, to find that now you are complicit with HMRC in denying us our rights as EU shoppers. What, in god's name, have we done to deserve such treatment from yourselves?

We are not smugglers, we pay the relevant tax in the country of purchase, we don't buy counterfeit goods, we are legal legitimate customers .... your customers! Not only do customers from the UK travel to the EU to buy their tobacco but many ex-pats of the UK who now live in the EU also smoke your product. We are now denied your product because of your complicity with HMRC ... this is simply disgusting and unethical.

These terms describe exactly how HMRC/UKBA operate and of course they are unaccountable to anyone but themselves. l can give you many documented examples of their tactics against legitimate shoppers. l cannot for the life of me understand how you have become a willing pawn in their draconian unjust activities. Are you that naive that you believe HMRC will be satisfied that you've just restricted one of your products? Well, think again because now you have started they will press for more and more. Mark my words.

Does being a loyal customer of yours count for nothing? lt feels as though one has been betrayed by someone you always thought was a friend.

l await your answer with interest.

Yours,

           ################

 There was of course no answer. l've written about the Vichy French before and these companies fit that category perfectly. Not only are we smokers harassed, intimidated and robbed by HMRC (Nazis) but now the Tobacco Companies (Vichy French) 

My own response will be to change what l smoke and from there on smoke something similar from one of the ex Baltic USSR now EU States. lt won't be the same but after a short while l'll get used to it. They are far cheaper than the UK brands too.

l stopped paying UK tax on the UK brands and paid it to one of the EU countries instead. l won't pay tax to support the HMRC to harass me. Now, l won't buy anything from these Tobacco Companies either as it would support them also to harass me.

Stuff them, l hope their shares fall as their market shrinks and disappears. My actions alone won't do this but others will do the same. Do they actually expect us to start buying our tobacco in the UK because the brands are no longer available in the EU? They must live in cloud cuckooland!

The Resistance fights on!

Free Trade EU? ... not if you're from the UK it isn't.

l've been following this for a while to see where it leads. So, you go abroad to buy your tobacco because it saves you so much money. You do this even though the UKBA try everything they can think of to stop you in your legitimate pursuit.

Seems they are not content at this. lf you smoke Amber Leaf, Cutters Choice or even Golden Virginia in some cases, the shops in Belgium and Lux don't have any. This is because the shops cannot get hold of any because production has been stopped of these products on the behest of the UK Gov/UKBA. This embargo will last till the end of the year.

Yes, you are reading this right. The UK Gov/UKBA has 'instructed' the tobacco companies to restrict supplies of British brands of tobacco. Firstly l wonder what the share holders of these tobacco companies will make of this? These tobacco companies seem have as much balls as Pubco .... zilch!

This won't effect the organised smuggling in the slightest but it will effect the legitimate shopper. Personally if l smoked these brands l'd no longer shop legitimately, l'd get it from man with van man because his supplies won't be interrupted.

l've written to the tobacco companies about this but as yet have had no reply. This sort of action is against the whole pronciple of the EU but there again it was never meant for us mere citizens was it?

I'd never allow the UK Gov to dictate to me what l can and what l cannot buy ... even if it meant getting used to smoking foreign brands. I have a message for the UK Gov/UKBA and the tobacco companies that are implementing such a measure .......... Fuck you!