Thought l'd call in whilst recuperating. Recuperating from what you say? Well, as the title says, l fucked myself up big style. Cracked my skull, screwed up my chest, my hip is shit ... and as for my mouth? ... l did a real job on that! Vast majority of my teeth were screwed up ... loose and twisted. So much so that the prognosis was that the best option was for them all to come out!
So, that's what l did. To be honest it was a relief as the pain was almost unbearable. Unfortunately the dental work was put on hold. It seems having no teeth is not classed as an emergency ... and that's with being Private and not NHS. My dentist is on lockdown and so is the dental lab. Bah!
Food is either liquid or mush but the upside is my liquid intake includes JD :)
I've been on Twitter and still am. lt's ok but being limited to so few characters is frustrating to say the least. Plus, there's so many absolute fruitcakes on Twitter. l always though that giving a voice to the public was a great idea ... l no longer think that!
l then thought of the N2D blog and decided to visit. Damn, it needs some house keeping! ... links are dead as are so many blogs. So bear with me whilst l do some much needed house keeping. My posts will be of a more personal nature and not specifically N2D.
What did please me was the blog was still relevant and still helping people. Another aspect was although the blog is specialised re cross border shopping ... we broke the 3 Million page views (hits are meaningless).
So, hi to all my old blogger friends. l hope l find you well ... stay safe.
SH
WARNING! Do NOT post ANY questions/requests on this blog regarding ANY issues with Border Force (Customs) We now have a FORUM for this where members will gladly help you. GO TO www.n2d.me/bbs
Goodbye to our D-Day Veteran :(
Sorry for lack of posts updating the HMRC sham but we've just lost a family member who was very dear to us. He was at D-DAY, 6th June 1944 from day 1. He was a giant of a man and l'm not talking about him being over 6ft. He had integrity, morals and lived to a code of honour that included compassion. He would and did help anyone.
l took him back to Normandy once for the 65th anniversary of D-Day and it remains a wonderful memory. Him and his comrades were a pleasure to be with ... and entertaining too. They all loved to have a pint, smoke and chew the fat. They're all gone now.
l took him back to Normandy once for the 65th anniversary of D-Day and it remains a wonderful memory. Him and his comrades were a pleasure to be with ... and entertaining too. They all loved to have a pint, smoke and chew the fat. They're all gone now.
As a measure of the man, there is one incident that sticks in my mind. We all have silly fears about something or other whether it be spiders, snakes etc. His was dogs but when he saw a dog drowning in a dock .... he jumped in and saved it!
l could and should write more but can't do it now.
He'll have a full military funeral and deservedly so. l'm going to miss him each and everyday!
Goodbye warrior!
 |
| His Legion de Honor |
Border Force aka Inspector Clouseau Detective Agency
As you most of you readers will know, I don't post much nowadays as I thought our work was done here. The N2D Forum is still very active but I no longer run it ... very capable members have taken the reins and are doing excellent work.
I've just received documents that have named Nothing 2 Declare in a civil court case (Condemnation Proceedings) brought by Border Force against a European tobacco leaf importer. lt states that a Robert Ibbotson is involved in my website???
WTF? Border Force really are akin to Inspector Clouseau but not reached even his level of competence. You'd have thought that the Border Force Officer (Jessica Ibbotson) who named us would've at least wrote to me to check her facts but no, she didn't. Not unexpected in all honesty, from experience we expect this sort of thing as the norm nowadays. lt did cross my mind that seeing the surnames were the same that it was some sort of family dispute :)
So, l've wrote to the lawyer dealing with this case at Border Force Cash and Condemnation Legal team. This seems to be her Linkedin profile.
"Dear Nilofar Bawla,
l have received documented evidence in your case Director
of Border Force v Leszek Marcin Siemiatkowski. Your witness, Jessica Ibbotson
of Revenue Fraud Detection Team in Dover, falsely states that Robert Ibbotson is
involved in my website Nothing 2 Declare. By doing so she is falsely
implicating me in whatever Robert Ibbotson is accused of.
l am not shocked
by her statement as l am used to such unsubstantiated supposed evidence from
Border Force in the years l have run the website. l have on record lies and
downright perjury in court from Border Force. However, l do demand a full
retraction from Jessica Ibbotson regarding Robert Ibbotson's involvement with
the Nothing 2 Declare website.
For your
information, Nothing 2 Declare ran from 1/06/2010 and its last post was
14/12/2015. Posts were very few in 2015 as l'd achieved all l thought l could in
regards to Cross Border Shopping and any discussion on this subject passed to
the N2D Forum. Even this forum, which l set up, l have very little to do with
and is now run by its members.
Robert Ibbotson
has NEVER been involved in Nothing 2 Declare or N2D Forum. There may be a
comment from him in the comments somewhere but l have no recollection of any
and even if they were, the sites are open to public comments. Seeing as Nothing
2 Declare still averages 1000 visits per day and has over 3 Million page views, the comments run into 1000's.
As l said, l only
do very little posting nowadays. l only post when something piques my interest.
One subject did but only slightly and that was about leaf. Perhaps this came to
Jessica's attention (Border Force, HMRC and Solicitors at the Treasury do monitor
the site) and she thought she'd tarnish our good standing? Well, this has
certainly piqued my interest and l shall now be posting, with her as the
subject.
lt amazes me
that Jessica's gossip is allowed to be put forward as factual evidence.
Regards,
SH"
I signed it 'SH' because as some of you know, Border Force have taken to signing their letters 'Officer'.
I intend to really look into this case now. Given how they've tried to implicate this site l fully expect their case to be like a sieve. Certainly has piqued my interest in the tobacco leaf trade. Interesting Times
.....................................................................................................................
UPDATE
Can't find any details of this case so far. Was supposedly in Nov 2016.
.....................................................................................................................
It's worth noting here the comments made by judges on a certain Border Force Officer :-
"In the eyes of the Tribunal the review letter contained several preconceptions, prejudgments and non-sequiturs"
"the absurdity of this reason is demonstrated by simply stating it"
"We therefore find that Mr Sked misdirected himself as to the Policy in carrying out the review and his decision is therefore one that no reasonable review officer could have arrived at."
... commonly known here at N2D as 'Skeds' ... that is to say these are Judges comments regarding UKBA Review Officer Ian Sked's reasoning.
Mr Sked may now have competition :)
.....................................................................................................................
UPDATE
Can't find any details of this case so far. Was supposedly in Nov 2016.
.....................................................................................................................
It's worth noting here the comments made by judges on a certain Border Force Officer :-
"In the eyes of the Tribunal the review letter contained several preconceptions, prejudgments and non-sequiturs"
"the absurdity of this reason is demonstrated by simply stating it"
"We therefore find that Mr Sked misdirected himself as to the Policy in carrying out the review and his decision is therefore one that no reasonable review officer could have arrived at."
... commonly known here at N2D as 'Skeds' ... that is to say these are Judges comments regarding UKBA Review Officer Ian Sked's reasoning.
Mr Sked may now have competition :)
Honey .... we're HOME!
Been a while ain't it? :) We've been travelling a lot ... l've been in the States for some time in the state of Arizona. Got myself back into motorbikes whilst l was there and have continued to do that now back in UK. Done lots of other stuff too.
We left because we felt we'd done as much as we could and the N2D Forum continues our work. It's now run by friends of ours and they still help cross-border shoppers who have problems with Border Force. We'd particularly like to thank Eezyrider along with the other Mods and regular members for doing such a fine job. They are very knowledgable about all the regs etc and the tactics of Border Force (< who are still not fit for purpose). As always ... all the advice on N2D Forum is free!
So, why are we back? Well, we still receive lots of mail but 99% is handled by the Forum. Amongst this mail has been something that has interested us. lt's not about cross-border shopping ... it's about a Border Force section that call themselves the Revenue Fraud Detection Team (RFDT for short) and abide at Freight Clearance Centre, Lord Warden Square, Western Docks, Dover, Kent.
RFDT look to have gone rogue ... with help from other departments in HMRC and our 'friends' at the National Post Seizure Unit. RFDT live in Ivory Towers and don't like any public intrusion or attention.
So, we thought it's time to do just that and let the public know what these excuses for public servants are up to. Give us a couple of days to clear the cobwebs out the office and we'll show you how they are harassing and destroying legitimate UK Companies just because they deal in raw tobacco leaf.
What crime have these companies committed? ... NONE
What evidence do RFDT have against these companies? ... NONE
OF course you'd think RFDT are abiding by their own rules and regulations ... THINK AGAIN
Watch this space ... we shall reveal all :)
Right, time to clean office
We left because we felt we'd done as much as we could and the N2D Forum continues our work. It's now run by friends of ours and they still help cross-border shoppers who have problems with Border Force. We'd particularly like to thank Eezyrider along with the other Mods and regular members for doing such a fine job. They are very knowledgable about all the regs etc and the tactics of Border Force (< who are still not fit for purpose). As always ... all the advice on N2D Forum is free!
So, why are we back? Well, we still receive lots of mail but 99% is handled by the Forum. Amongst this mail has been something that has interested us. lt's not about cross-border shopping ... it's about a Border Force section that call themselves the Revenue Fraud Detection Team (RFDT for short) and abide at Freight Clearance Centre, Lord Warden Square, Western Docks, Dover, Kent.
RFDT look to have gone rogue ... with help from other departments in HMRC and our 'friends' at the National Post Seizure Unit. RFDT live in Ivory Towers and don't like any public intrusion or attention.
So, we thought it's time to do just that and let the public know what these excuses for public servants are up to. Give us a couple of days to clear the cobwebs out the office and we'll show you how they are harassing and destroying legitimate UK Companies just because they deal in raw tobacco leaf.
What crime have these companies committed? ... NONE
What evidence do RFDT have against these companies? ... NONE
OF course you'd think RFDT are abiding by their own rules and regulations ... THINK AGAIN
Watch this space ... we shall reveal all :)
Right, time to clean office
We're Back!!!
Hope you guys all had a good Xmas and New Year. We've been asked to help with a new campaign. This time primarily against HMRC. So, watch this space ... it will be up in the next couple of days.
In the meantime, we say this :-
In the meantime, we say this :-
N2D Social Club Minibus now 'retired' ... with full honours.
We've now retired the N2D minibus from the Hull/Zeebrugge trips. We
bought her in the summer of 2011 and then fitted her out with all the
mod cons ... pride of which is the sound system 
.
Then we added her 'colours' ... the smoking skulls (l'll add some pics later)
along with various other rebel stickers such as the very large 'No Fear'
stickers across the back doors. We announced to the then UKBA that we
were going to do the baccy/alcohol runs from Hull to Zeebrugge. We even
put up photos of our minibus on N2D website. This all was a direct
challenge to UKBA (Border Force).
We've done 3 x 6 month 2 for 1 seasons along with a Eurotunnel trip. How many trips there have been in total is something l'd have to look up but needles to say ... there have been many. Our final trip ended today. Our passengers in all our trips have disregarded the guidelines with very few exceptions. The N2D minibus record is as follows :-
She has never been stopped and searched despite Border Force (UKBA) knowing her identity and for what purpose she was making the trips! Even today whilst waiting in line for passport control, the officers walking down the line looking in peoples vehicles avoided N2D minibus!
Further to this, not one of N2D's minibus many many passengers have had anything seized (passengers must disembark as foot passengers). Too be fair, we've abused the foot passenger ruling on numerous occassions too ... with everbody disembarking with the minibus.
So, thanks to each and everyone of you who travelled with us at one time or another. You chose to stand up and counted and should be proud of yourselves. The N2D minibus was proud to have you but with that she is now retiring from active service ... with her honour intact!
We may see you ourselves on future trips but if we don't ... thanks, it's been fun!
lt was also fun when taking such as the Normandy Veterans, Submariners etc to many functions within the UK. We did this at cost to give something back to the ex-servicemen. l have to say that the Submariners are the craziest bunch l've ever come across ... and most of them are in their 70's and 80's.
There's also been trips top Rock Concerts, Rugby matches, shopping days etc etc for people of our community and it's always been at cost.
lt's been one hell of a ride ... laughter, music, drinking and yes, smoking have been the core of all the trips. You can smoke on our bus ... how's that for service? :) Alas, we have to move on :(
As l say, l'll put up some pics and if you see her on your travels ... touch your forelock to her ... she deserves it!
.
Then we added her 'colours' ... the smoking skulls (l'll add some pics later)
along with various other rebel stickers such as the very large 'No Fear'
stickers across the back doors. We announced to the then UKBA that we
were going to do the baccy/alcohol runs from Hull to Zeebrugge. We even
put up photos of our minibus on N2D website. This all was a direct
challenge to UKBA (Border Force).We've done 3 x 6 month 2 for 1 seasons along with a Eurotunnel trip. How many trips there have been in total is something l'd have to look up but needles to say ... there have been many. Our final trip ended today. Our passengers in all our trips have disregarded the guidelines with very few exceptions. The N2D minibus record is as follows :-
She has never been stopped and searched despite Border Force (UKBA) knowing her identity and for what purpose she was making the trips! Even today whilst waiting in line for passport control, the officers walking down the line looking in peoples vehicles avoided N2D minibus!
Further to this, not one of N2D's minibus many many passengers have had anything seized (passengers must disembark as foot passengers). Too be fair, we've abused the foot passenger ruling on numerous occassions too ... with everbody disembarking with the minibus.
So, thanks to each and everyone of you who travelled with us at one time or another. You chose to stand up and counted and should be proud of yourselves. The N2D minibus was proud to have you but with that she is now retiring from active service ... with her honour intact!
We may see you ourselves on future trips but if we don't ... thanks, it's been fun!
lt was also fun when taking such as the Normandy Veterans, Submariners etc to many functions within the UK. We did this at cost to give something back to the ex-servicemen. l have to say that the Submariners are the craziest bunch l've ever come across ... and most of them are in their 70's and 80's.
There's also been trips top Rock Concerts, Rugby matches, shopping days etc etc for people of our community and it's always been at cost.
lt's been one hell of a ride ... laughter, music, drinking and yes, smoking have been the core of all the trips. You can smoke on our bus ... how's that for service? :) Alas, we have to move on :(
As l say, l'll put up some pics and if you see her on your travels ... touch your forelock to her ... she deserves it!
Smokers Happy Budget Day
Sounds strange doesn't it? ... 'Smokers Happy Budget Day' but for me it is. l've not bought any UK tobacco or cigarettes for over 20 years or so. All mine have been bought from the EU ... all duty paid but the UK Treasury gets sweet fa. l'm certainly not alone in doing this and despite the unethical tactics used by Border Force/UKBA/HMRC many thousands of people do exactly the same as me. That's many millions of pounds that the UK Treasury doesn't get it's sweaty mitts on. What's more, people like me are invisible as smokers ... they've no way of counting us because they certainly can't use retail sales in the UK to get a figure. Most they can do is guess.
So yeah, let them put up the price of tobacco and cigarettes. Let them pontificate upon the effect this will have on smokers. Let them standardise the packaging, cover the packets with stupid images ... l couldn't care less! God knows how much money l've saved over the years by buying my smokes from the EU but it'll be a sizeable sum ... all money that l've spent on other pleasures in life.
We've taught many how to deal with Border Force in regards to briniging their own tobacco back into the UK. We even have a minibus that we take trips to purchase tobacco. Alas, that is to be no more ... we are now bringing that to close. There will be no more trips as we no longer have the time to do it. lt's been fun but that era has come to an end for us. The minibus is to be put up for sale along with it's ear deafening sound system and it's proud history. We'll miss her but l doubt Border Force will have the same sentiments :)
Oh, one more thing ... our alcohol come from the EU too. Happy Budget Day!
So yeah, let them put up the price of tobacco and cigarettes. Let them pontificate upon the effect this will have on smokers. Let them standardise the packaging, cover the packets with stupid images ... l couldn't care less! God knows how much money l've saved over the years by buying my smokes from the EU but it'll be a sizeable sum ... all money that l've spent on other pleasures in life.
We've taught many how to deal with Border Force in regards to briniging their own tobacco back into the UK. We even have a minibus that we take trips to purchase tobacco. Alas, that is to be no more ... we are now bringing that to close. There will be no more trips as we no longer have the time to do it. lt's been fun but that era has come to an end for us. The minibus is to be put up for sale along with it's ear deafening sound system and it's proud history. We'll miss her but l doubt Border Force will have the same sentiments :)
Oh, one more thing ... our alcohol come from the EU too. Happy Budget Day!
1,000,000 Baby! ... Yeah!
Today our blog passed 1,000,000 pageviews. Remind me, what did Simon Clark once say about us? :)
Are You An Outlaw Yet?
One can understand why given it's they who have denied so many the right to live their life they want to. ln our case here in the UK it's been all 3 parties ... Labour, Lib Dems and Cons. lt's been never ending for years and still continues to this day ... and will be tomorrow, the day after that ... there's no end in sight.
So, do you change the life you want to live or do you live it the way you want?
We chose the latter ... what have you chosen?
We're leaving ....
... very shortly for our annual Rock n Blues weekend. Preparation is everything and we do take it seriously ... as you can see below. The big boy is a 3 Litre ... nice!
What you see is mine and Zaphod's ... the rest of the crew take their own. Before you ask ... of course the hip flasks are full ... why wouldn't they be? Wonder what the health fascists would make of this lot? Maybe they'd think it's for the year? They'd be wrong ... it's for Fri lunch to Mon morning :). When we party ... we party!
We'll be meeting up with old friends and other crews. We'll no doubt have more friends by the end of it ... we always do!
plus many many more!
ps. Trivia ... Zoot Money is Zaphod's uncle :)
p.s. lf we don't make it back ... don't say we died ... say we LIVED!
What More Can We Do?
Well, it's 2014 and 2013 has been and gone. We've shown beyond doubt our advice works for cross-border shoppers when stopped by Border Force. This advice is record everything and take a Statement of Truth. You'll find more details here on our forum. On there you'll read our members experiences and advice on using the Statement of Truth and recording. lf you are a cross-border shopper it's a must!
The thing now is, we don't see what more we can do. We've tried our best to get others to spread the word about shoppers rights and how to be treat fairly by Border Force but we've been met by a stoney silence! Believe me, we've tried everyone ... Ferry Companies, Tobacco Companies, Liberty sites etc etc .... silence! All we've asked for is to put up the basic advice for cross-border shopper's rights ... no links to us, no mention of N2D if they don't want to ... all that is important is the advice.
Then of course there's
The thing now is, we don't see what more we can do. We've tried our best to get others to spread the word about shoppers rights and how to be treat fairly by Border Force but we've been met by a stoney silence! Believe me, we've tried everyone ... Ferry Companies, Tobacco Companies, Liberty sites etc etc .... silence! All we've asked for is to put up the basic advice for cross-border shopper's rights ... no links to us, no mention of N2D if they don't want to ... all that is important is the advice.
Then of course there's
The Voice and Friend of the Smoker? ... really? What advice do they have for cross-border shoppers?
They have this!
Yep! ... FOREST directs cross-border shoppers via a link to HMRC(Border Force)! Some Voice and Friend of the Smoker eh? That's all you'll find about cross-border shoppers ... nothing more.
FOREST just send you to the 'enemy' ... HMRC(Border Force). Jeez!
On the positive side there is our forum. We've many experienced and knowledgeable members who help one and all who come to our forum. They even help shoppers they meet who are going on trips or those that wish to. We ourselves have seen this forum grow to the point where we are actually no longer needed ... the forum and it's members look after it themselves ... and do a damn fine job too!
Many cases have been won against Border Force ... some before they even get to court. Then there is the many shoppers that have been saved from having their goods seized. We can't take the credit for that ... it's been the forum and it's members!
These are ordinary members of the public who are making a stand against the abuse of our fellow citizens at our own borders. They have the guts to stand up and say 'enough is enough'. ... and we get results! Many of them, so much so that Border Force target N2D ... albeit unsuccessfully :)
Be part of it ... and make 2014 more successful than 2013.
Be a Lion ... not a sheep ... and join us!
Join the FORUM
Happy New Year!
We aim to wake up sometime in 2014 saying " Where the hell am l and who the fuck are you?"
Have a good one!
SH and Zaphod
HMRC Regs on Tobacco Leaf ... What HMRC won't tell you!
We are coming to the conclusion that HMRC are acting in the same way as Border Force do to cross-border shoppers.The regulations that HMRC say you have to conform to simply don't hold water when it comes to tobacco leaf imho. Certainly Notices 477 and 476 skirt round the issue. For instance in Notice 476 ... 2.12 , it says "Can l sell raw tobacco to my customers so that they can make their own tobacco products?" Yeah, all well and good except all customers don't make their own tobacco products. Many turn the raw leaf into snuff or e-cig liquid ... so where is the question regarding those customers?. Yes, you've guessed it ... HMRC don't go there! See what l mean when l say they act like Border Force? They only put up the info and regs that suit them!
ln the same Notice 476 1.3 it says "Who should read this notice" and their answer is "lt is primarily intended for anyone who manufactures or imports tobacco products" Again, all well and good except raw tobacco leaf is not a tobacco product (Tobacco Products (Description of Products) Order 2003.
So, we decided to contact HMRC and ask them. What a bloody joke that was! They have a helpline that is a voice activated/recognition program that greets you. The stupid thing does not even recognise the word 'tobacco' ... l kid you not! We eventually got through to some actual person after trying all sorts of words and ended up using the word 'tax'. We were told to use the online Excise enquiry ... which we did. Guess what we got when we filled it in and sent it? ... This service is unavailable !!!!!!! There was a link to write to if you were having problems ... so we did. Guess what we got then? ... they directed us back to the online Excise enquiry!
Oh for the days of HMCE when you could have an intelligent and worthwhile conversation with them. HMRC are nothing like the standards of HMCE ... HMRC use the same tactics of Border Force ... they avoid questions that they don't want to answer. Y.know, the questions that aim to find out the truth!
Their policy is obviously to frighten people off from selling leaf. Thankfully there are companies that just follow the actual rules and regulations and can supply quality tobacco leaf legitmately to anyone that wants it.
We recommend you go to TL4U if you want tobacco leaf. They supply excellent quality tobacco leaves at a fantastic price ... just £1.50 for 50g !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ln the same Notice 476 1.3 it says "Who should read this notice" and their answer is "lt is primarily intended for anyone who manufactures or imports tobacco products" Again, all well and good except raw tobacco leaf is not a tobacco product (Tobacco Products (Description of Products) Order 2003.
So, we decided to contact HMRC and ask them. What a bloody joke that was! They have a helpline that is a voice activated/recognition program that greets you. The stupid thing does not even recognise the word 'tobacco' ... l kid you not! We eventually got through to some actual person after trying all sorts of words and ended up using the word 'tax'. We were told to use the online Excise enquiry ... which we did. Guess what we got when we filled it in and sent it? ... This service is unavailable !!!!!!! There was a link to write to if you were having problems ... so we did. Guess what we got then? ... they directed us back to the online Excise enquiry!
Oh for the days of HMCE when you could have an intelligent and worthwhile conversation with them. HMRC are nothing like the standards of HMCE ... HMRC use the same tactics of Border Force ... they avoid questions that they don't want to answer. Y.know, the questions that aim to find out the truth!
Their policy is obviously to frighten people off from selling leaf. Thankfully there are companies that just follow the actual rules and regulations and can supply quality tobacco leaf legitmately to anyone that wants it.
We recommend you go to TL4U if you want tobacco leaf. They supply excellent quality tobacco leaves at a fantastic price ... just £1.50 for 50g !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UKBF(HMRC) v Pureleaf (Tobacco Leaf Supplier) ... one to keep an eye on.
Pureleaf have had atleast 6000lbs ( 2721.55 kilograms) of USA imported leaf 'seized'. Not our normal type of seizure ... this is CEMA 1979 S170B ... could be very nasty indeed. Pureleaf have now disabled their forum ... some can still see it but others can't.
http://pureleaf.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=940&sid=ede740794c8d37b55c9e91d725f963fa#p940
For those that can't see it, go here
http://2khh4.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/here-copy-of-pf-forum-thread-site-back.html?showComment=1384126426437#c5289111853158558937
http://pureleaf.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=940&sid=ede740794c8d37b55c9e91d725f963fa#p940
For those that can't see it, go here
http://2khh4.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/here-copy-of-pf-forum-thread-site-back.html?showComment=1384126426437#c5289111853158558937
UK Border Force (HMRC) ... Tobacco Leaves .... UK Tobacco Duty ... Yes/No?
Tobacco Leaves on their own are NOT liable to UK Duty ... period! The onus is on the end user as to whether UK Duty is liable or not. If the leaves are shredded and turned into rolling tobacco then, yes, UK Duty is liable. The end user should then contact HMRC and tell them how much (weight) they have turned into rolling tobacco. However, if the end user takes the shredded leaf and turns it into snuff then there is NO UK Duty liable.
Reputable tobacco leaf suppliers have terms and conditions for supplying leaf. These terms and conditions have to be agreed by the end user before a sale and subsequent supply can go ahead. ln essence, the terms and conditions states that it is the end user's responsibility as to what happens to the leaves when they receive them. lt is NOT the responsibility of the leaf supplier. Obviously UKBF(HMRC) don't like this and would want the liabilty to be with the supplier.When you think of their stance, it's a little like the Police wanting car manufacturers to be liable for any traffic/speeding offences on any vehicles sold to customers. :)
Why are HMRC wanting this? Well, it's because they currently have the tobacco manufacturers of rolling tobacco and cigarettes as their unpaid revenue collectors. The tobacco companies HAVE to pay the UK Duty and they then pass it on to us, the customers. Simple, for HMRC ... yes?
However, the situation is reversed when it comes to leaf. HMRC have to go to the end user for the UK Duty. Now that's not so easy ... it's like HMRC having to go to each and everyone who purchases tobacco products from outlets such as ASDA. Best of luck with that is all l can say. :)
Last month there was a case where UKBF (& HMRC) tried to say tobacco leaf was liable for duty. UKBF had seized tobacco leaf at the border (whether the import hadn't adhered to all the paperwork was not addressed). Howver, HMRC tried to impose the Duty fine that they do on goods seized from cross-border shoppers. The judgement was they CANNOT do this as tobacco leaf is NOT liable for duty!
Read it here
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2013/TC02964.html.
To be honest, UKBF (HMRC) tried it on even though they know there is NO duty liable on tobacco leaf. They still harass the tobacco leaf suppliers and these suppliers should, if they are reputable, be registered for VAT and also be registered as a tobacco broker/supplier.
Of course the tobacco manufacturers like Imperial Tobacco are not happy either but l have no sympathy for them at all. What did they ever do for the smoker (smoking ban) or the cross-border shopper ? ... sweet FA, that's what!
They say ever dog has it's day ... well, the smoker is now having his!We know of one smoker who ranf HMRC because he was smoking leaf. He smokes 2 or 3 cigarettes a day. He rang HMRC to ask them how much he owed them ... HMRC basically told him to go away and not bother them! :)
One last thing, if you want to purchase tobacco leaf ... go here. We thoroughly recommend them.
Reputable tobacco leaf suppliers have terms and conditions for supplying leaf. These terms and conditions have to be agreed by the end user before a sale and subsequent supply can go ahead. ln essence, the terms and conditions states that it is the end user's responsibility as to what happens to the leaves when they receive them. lt is NOT the responsibility of the leaf supplier. Obviously UKBF(HMRC) don't like this and would want the liabilty to be with the supplier.When you think of their stance, it's a little like the Police wanting car manufacturers to be liable for any traffic/speeding offences on any vehicles sold to customers. :)
Why are HMRC wanting this? Well, it's because they currently have the tobacco manufacturers of rolling tobacco and cigarettes as their unpaid revenue collectors. The tobacco companies HAVE to pay the UK Duty and they then pass it on to us, the customers. Simple, for HMRC ... yes?
However, the situation is reversed when it comes to leaf. HMRC have to go to the end user for the UK Duty. Now that's not so easy ... it's like HMRC having to go to each and everyone who purchases tobacco products from outlets such as ASDA. Best of luck with that is all l can say. :)
Last month there was a case where UKBF (& HMRC) tried to say tobacco leaf was liable for duty. UKBF had seized tobacco leaf at the border (whether the import hadn't adhered to all the paperwork was not addressed). Howver, HMRC tried to impose the Duty fine that they do on goods seized from cross-border shoppers. The judgement was they CANNOT do this as tobacco leaf is NOT liable for duty!
Read it here
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2013/TC02964.html.
To be honest, UKBF (HMRC) tried it on even though they know there is NO duty liable on tobacco leaf. They still harass the tobacco leaf suppliers and these suppliers should, if they are reputable, be registered for VAT and also be registered as a tobacco broker/supplier.
Of course the tobacco manufacturers like Imperial Tobacco are not happy either but l have no sympathy for them at all. What did they ever do for the smoker (smoking ban) or the cross-border shopper ? ... sweet FA, that's what!
They say ever dog has it's day ... well, the smoker is now having his!We know of one smoker who ranf HMRC because he was smoking leaf. He smokes 2 or 3 cigarettes a day. He rang HMRC to ask them how much he owed them ... HMRC basically told him to go away and not bother them! :)
One last thing, if you want to purchase tobacco leaf ... go here. We thoroughly recommend them.
Hull Magistrates Court .... N2D 2 v Hull Border Force 0
lt was an interesting day to say the least. lt started off with 2 cases on the same day ... one with Cath & Em and the other with Turbo(N2D Forum ID), Cath/Em's had already been postponed so that one was definitely going ahead ... Turbo's looked odds on for being postponed. As it was, the Clerk of the Courts said she'd try and fit it in. This gave the opportunity to observe the main case and give the Turbo an idea of how these Condemnation Proceedings were run ... or so we thought!
Firstly, the magistrates were late so the likelihood of the second case proceeding didn't look good. When the magistrates did turn up we all filed in. There was quite a few supporters who turned up and that was nice to see. What wasn't nice was the Head Magistrate ... Mrs Whittaker. l kid you not when l say she totally exemplified the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland!
She was rude, arrogant, nasty and treat the respondents Cath/Em, their McKenzie Friend Zaphod and those in the public gallery with visible contempt in my honest opinion. l have been in a lot of courts and l've never seen a magistrate behave like this. Prosecution and Border Force were of course treat completely different ... surprise, surprise. l don't think it needed a genius to predict where this was going.
The case started, prosecution gave their opening statement and then called their first witness, Officer Moody. His evidence was pretty inoffensive but that was no surprise as we already knew that he had relied on Officer Lyne's judgement and evidence in the original seizure. No cross-examination was judged to be necessary. Then next up in the witness box was Officer Lyne.
l'll deal with Officer Lyne's evidence later but there was something more important going on ... the court is absolutely terrible acoustic wise. You find it hard to hear what is being said. Cath/Em were having this problem so Em spoke up ... and all hell let loose. This magistrate went ballistic and started on Em and spouted such stuff as 'Well, if you haven't heard anything you're wasting the courts time and l'll bring it to an end', The Clerk of the Court suggested to the magistrate that Cath/Em move forward to a closer bench. The magistrate refused so the Clerk of the Court ignored her and got Cath/Em to move forward. The proceedings went further downhill from there ... so much so that a recess was called.
Cath/Em/Zaphod complained to the Clerk of the Court about this magistrate as did members of the public from the gallery. This resulted in this Mrs Whittaker and her 2 companion magistrates being removed and another set of magistrates being called for .... and the case was to start again ... from scratch!
Also they'd found some other magistrates and a free courtroom for Turbo so we both trundled off to that courtroom leaving the mayhem behind us.
The case opened with the usual opening statement from prosecution followed by the calling to the stand of Border Force officer Ms Robinson who initially had seized Turbo's goods. Prosecution's evidence, to all intents and purposes, consisted of reading out Ms Robinson's witness statement. Turbo then had the chance to cross-examine. For a first time he did an excellent job. He showed that all the reasons for seizure given by Ms Robinson at time of seizure were not valid ... and Ms Robinson agreed. The only thing she had to fall back on was according to her witness statement/notebook, that before seizing Turbo's goods, she had discussed it with her boss ... Border Force Higher Executive Officer Graham. To be honest, l felt Officer Robinson was like a rabbit caught in headlights. She was nervous and unsure of herself. l don't think anyone had prepared her for court at all. l'd asked Turbo to question her about her frontline experience but he didn't. l still feel that she was pretty new to the job ... especially as a frontline officer. She was not even the one who had initially stopped Turbo ... it was HEO Graham ... who had simply passed Turbo onto Ms Robinson to be interviewed. There were quite a few mistakes/false entries in her notebook ... one being it was her who had initially stopped Turbo. To her credit she admitted her mistakes but as l said earlier, relied on her discussing the seizure with HEO Graham.
Next witness was HEO Graham himself, as called for by Turbo. Prosecution had no real questions for him so it came to Turbo to cross examine. When he asked HEO Graham what he'd discussed with Officer Robinson regarding the seizure ... he flatly denied he was involved in the seizure in anyway whatsoever! He left Officer Robinson high and dry! There was an integrity with Officer Robinson but l saw none in HEO Graham. l honestly feel for Ms Robinson ... it's a shock to one's system to find that your own don't back you. Especially when, as l believe, it was HEO Graham who told her to seize the goods in the first place. l wonder if she knows because she wasn't in court to see it?
The magistrates then called for a recess so we went and prepared for Turbo going in the stand. When we returned the magistrates said they'd looked at all the submissions and had decided to throw the Border Force's case out! We'd won! So, flush with success we went to the other court to see how Cath/Em were doing.
We got in court just as Cath/Em were destroying Officer Lyne's 'evidence'. He'd made the girls roll cigarettes and then took them away to weigh them at the time of the seizure. From the weight of just 3 cigarettes he'd deduced somehow or other that Cath/Em's consumption rate was wrong and their tobacco wouldn't last as long as they said it would. Sounds very scientific doesn't it? ... except of course it's nothing of the sort. Had he taken into account the weight of the filter and papers? What sort of weighing machine had he used? Was it capable of weighing 0,001gms? Did it have a hood/ glass case (at these weights the airflow in the room can effect the scales). Was the weighing machine calibrated and if so where is the certificate? Did he realise that using just 3 cigarettes to divide into 10kg is absolutely ridiculous? What precautions did he take when weighing? Where was the evidence of these cigarettes ... oh, yes ... he'd given them back to Cath/Em who'd then smoked them! The list goes on and on for this. Lab techs would roll about the floor laughing ... as our own family scientist did when we told her. Really people, if Hull Border Force ever try this on you ... just laugh and ask them if they are really serious?
Next ... Officer Lyne did not believe that Cath/Em's bank card did not work in Belgium because they had lived in Spain for approx 7 years and therefore would know about using UK bank cards abroad. Mind, he didn't question them about this at the time of the interview ... if he had done he would've been told that Cath/Em used Spanish banks and bank cards!
Officer Lyne along with Officer Moody had made a case that income v expenditure resulted in their eyes that Cath/Em could not afford to purchase this amount of tobacco (10kg each). Both officers steadfastly refused to accept them as a couple despite being continually told so. Cath/Em are a couple and legally so ... and they proved this in court.
Officer Lyne had stated that Turner HRT is not commercially available in the UK and said this was confirmed by Gary Brown (HMRC Fiscal Crime Liason Officer) so Cath/Em could not have purchased Turner in the UK (they said they usually bought Turner in UK). Except it was shown that it is commercially available in the UK and get this ... it's sold in UK Prison shops!
l'll finish with this even though there are other points. Unbelievably, Officer Lyne produced printouts of our very own N2D Forum he said because Em had called him a 'prick' on it and Em was giving smugglers advice! We couldn't have asked for better for the defense. The printout contained our own description of what we do and of course the magistrates read this. Em admitted she called him a name ... as she put it 'He'd been nasty to her so she was to him'. l swear l saw the magistrates smile.Officer Lyne also said that we were a bootleggers site ... twice!
You got to laugh, he calls us when all we do is tell people their rights and how to protect themselves from interviews by Border Force that are often nothing about getting to the truth ... but getting seizures. Perhaps Officer Lyne should look closer to home. How about Alistair Graham Fields? ... or how Hull Border Force told the Data Protection Unit that the notebooks in this seizure that Cath/Em requested by SAR were damaged and virtually unreadable ... except they turned up in court in perfect condition. Or when Hull Border Force got Humberside Police to target the N2D bus We could go on but lets get back to the case.
Em then gave a great closing summing up.
Magistrates then called for a recess and so we all filed out and went for a smoke. We returned after a short while and went into the court and awaited the judgement. The magistrates came back and their judgement was that ... Cath/Em had won!
A Grand Day Out!
Oh, just for the record ... UK Border Force (prev UKBA), HMRC and TSOL are all over our blog/forum and have been doing so for at least a year or so. We're more than happy for them to do so.
Firstly, the magistrates were late so the likelihood of the second case proceeding didn't look good. When the magistrates did turn up we all filed in. There was quite a few supporters who turned up and that was nice to see. What wasn't nice was the Head Magistrate ... Mrs Whittaker. l kid you not when l say she totally exemplified the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland!
l'll deal with Officer Lyne's evidence later but there was something more important going on ... the court is absolutely terrible acoustic wise. You find it hard to hear what is being said. Cath/Em were having this problem so Em spoke up ... and all hell let loose. This magistrate went ballistic and started on Em and spouted such stuff as 'Well, if you haven't heard anything you're wasting the courts time and l'll bring it to an end', The Clerk of the Court suggested to the magistrate that Cath/Em move forward to a closer bench. The magistrate refused so the Clerk of the Court ignored her and got Cath/Em to move forward. The proceedings went further downhill from there ... so much so that a recess was called.
Cath/Em/Zaphod complained to the Clerk of the Court about this magistrate as did members of the public from the gallery. This resulted in this Mrs Whittaker and her 2 companion magistrates being removed and another set of magistrates being called for .... and the case was to start again ... from scratch!
Also they'd found some other magistrates and a free courtroom for Turbo so we both trundled off to that courtroom leaving the mayhem behind us.
The case opened with the usual opening statement from prosecution followed by the calling to the stand of Border Force officer Ms Robinson who initially had seized Turbo's goods. Prosecution's evidence, to all intents and purposes, consisted of reading out Ms Robinson's witness statement. Turbo then had the chance to cross-examine. For a first time he did an excellent job. He showed that all the reasons for seizure given by Ms Robinson at time of seizure were not valid ... and Ms Robinson agreed. The only thing she had to fall back on was according to her witness statement/notebook, that before seizing Turbo's goods, she had discussed it with her boss ... Border Force Higher Executive Officer Graham. To be honest, l felt Officer Robinson was like a rabbit caught in headlights. She was nervous and unsure of herself. l don't think anyone had prepared her for court at all. l'd asked Turbo to question her about her frontline experience but he didn't. l still feel that she was pretty new to the job ... especially as a frontline officer. She was not even the one who had initially stopped Turbo ... it was HEO Graham ... who had simply passed Turbo onto Ms Robinson to be interviewed. There were quite a few mistakes/false entries in her notebook ... one being it was her who had initially stopped Turbo. To her credit she admitted her mistakes but as l said earlier, relied on her discussing the seizure with HEO Graham.
Next witness was HEO Graham himself, as called for by Turbo. Prosecution had no real questions for him so it came to Turbo to cross examine. When he asked HEO Graham what he'd discussed with Officer Robinson regarding the seizure ... he flatly denied he was involved in the seizure in anyway whatsoever! He left Officer Robinson high and dry! There was an integrity with Officer Robinson but l saw none in HEO Graham. l honestly feel for Ms Robinson ... it's a shock to one's system to find that your own don't back you. Especially when, as l believe, it was HEO Graham who told her to seize the goods in the first place. l wonder if she knows because she wasn't in court to see it?
The magistrates then called for a recess so we went and prepared for Turbo going in the stand. When we returned the magistrates said they'd looked at all the submissions and had decided to throw the Border Force's case out! We'd won! So, flush with success we went to the other court to see how Cath/Em were doing.
We got in court just as Cath/Em were destroying Officer Lyne's 'evidence'. He'd made the girls roll cigarettes and then took them away to weigh them at the time of the seizure. From the weight of just 3 cigarettes he'd deduced somehow or other that Cath/Em's consumption rate was wrong and their tobacco wouldn't last as long as they said it would. Sounds very scientific doesn't it? ... except of course it's nothing of the sort. Had he taken into account the weight of the filter and papers? What sort of weighing machine had he used? Was it capable of weighing 0,001gms? Did it have a hood/ glass case (at these weights the airflow in the room can effect the scales). Was the weighing machine calibrated and if so where is the certificate? Did he realise that using just 3 cigarettes to divide into 10kg is absolutely ridiculous? What precautions did he take when weighing? Where was the evidence of these cigarettes ... oh, yes ... he'd given them back to Cath/Em who'd then smoked them! The list goes on and on for this. Lab techs would roll about the floor laughing ... as our own family scientist did when we told her. Really people, if Hull Border Force ever try this on you ... just laugh and ask them if they are really serious?
Next ... Officer Lyne did not believe that Cath/Em's bank card did not work in Belgium because they had lived in Spain for approx 7 years and therefore would know about using UK bank cards abroad. Mind, he didn't question them about this at the time of the interview ... if he had done he would've been told that Cath/Em used Spanish banks and bank cards!
Officer Lyne along with Officer Moody had made a case that income v expenditure resulted in their eyes that Cath/Em could not afford to purchase this amount of tobacco (10kg each). Both officers steadfastly refused to accept them as a couple despite being continually told so. Cath/Em are a couple and legally so ... and they proved this in court.
Officer Lyne had stated that Turner HRT is not commercially available in the UK and said this was confirmed by Gary Brown (HMRC Fiscal Crime Liason Officer) so Cath/Em could not have purchased Turner in the UK (they said they usually bought Turner in UK). Except it was shown that it is commercially available in the UK and get this ... it's sold in UK Prison shops!
l'll finish with this even though there are other points. Unbelievably, Officer Lyne produced printouts of our very own N2D Forum he said because Em had called him a 'prick' on it and Em was giving smugglers advice! We couldn't have asked for better for the defense. The printout contained our own description of what we do and of course the magistrates read this. Em admitted she called him a name ... as she put it 'He'd been nasty to her so she was to him'. l swear l saw the magistrates smile.Officer Lyne also said that we were a bootleggers site ... twice!
You got to laugh, he calls us when all we do is tell people their rights and how to protect themselves from interviews by Border Force that are often nothing about getting to the truth ... but getting seizures. Perhaps Officer Lyne should look closer to home. How about Alistair Graham Fields? ... or how Hull Border Force told the Data Protection Unit that the notebooks in this seizure that Cath/Em requested by SAR were damaged and virtually unreadable ... except they turned up in court in perfect condition. Or when Hull Border Force got Humberside Police to target the N2D bus We could go on but lets get back to the case.
Em then gave a great closing summing up.
Magistrates then called for a recess and so we all filed out and went for a smoke. We returned after a short while and went into the court and awaited the judgement. The magistrates came back and their judgement was that ... Cath/Em had won!
A Grand Day Out!
Oh, just for the record ... UK Border Force (prev UKBA), HMRC and TSOL are all over our blog/forum and have been doing so for at least a year or so. We're more than happy for them to do so.
You gotta laugh
The number of people smoking tobacco leaf in Poland is said to be 60% of smokers. Imperial Tobacco have been and still are very upset about this. So much so, that they seem to have got the Polish government to do something. They've brought in regs that stipulate that the tobacco leaf producers can only sell to people who are vat registered.
That'll stop the Polish citizens buying tobacco leaf! .... errr, well no actually. What l'm told is that they are registering for vat and now claiming the vat back! l do hope this is true :)
lf you want to try tobacco leaf yourself. ... go here £1.50 for 50g. :)
That'll stop the Polish citizens buying tobacco leaf! .... errr, well no actually. What l'm told is that they are registering for vat and now claiming the vat back! l do hope this is true :)
lf you want to try tobacco leaf yourself. ... go here £1.50 for 50g. :)
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