The shopper also tells me that there is quite a bit missing from the second formal
The traps and techniques l previously talked about are all here. There is little attempt at finding the facts. HMRC just look for any reason to confiscate the goods. This so called evidence produced by HMRC would be torn to bits in a criminal court but that's the point, it isn't a criminal court but a civil court. Hearsay is all that is necessary and the balance of probabilities. The reasons given for this particular seizure are weak to say the least and some are just downright lies.
The shopper lost the initial appeal but won in court. l'll cover that in a later post
l am an Officer of HMRC currently based at Manchester Airport. On --/07/08 l intercepted a male l now know as #### ##### D.O.B ##/##/##. Mr #### was travelling from Gerona on flight ######
HMRC Are these your bags?
#### Yes
HMRC Did you pack them yourself?
#### Yes
HMRC Are you aware it is illegal to bring back things such as guns, explosives, drugs or
indecent or obscene material?
#### Yes
HMRC Are you aware or customs guidelines as far as cigarettes or tobacco are concerned?
#### Yes
HMRC Do you have any cigs or tobacco?
#### Yes loads
HMRC How much?
#### I couldn't tell you. I don't know
HMRC Do you smoke?
#### Yes I smoke tobacco and the cigs re for my wife
HMRC How long have you been away for?
#### 2 days
HMRC How many packets do you smoke a week?
#### 3 or 4 a week
HMRC How many rolls do you get out of a packet?
#### I don't know
HMRC What does your wife smoke?
#### The cheapest, whatever l can get her
HMRC How many a week?
#### 40 or 50 a day
HMRC When as the last time you brought cigs or tobacco back?
#### In DEC to Gerona
HMRC What did you bring back?
#### l'm not sure maybe 3-4000 cigs no tobacco.
HMRC ls that all you brought back?
#### Yes
HMRC What brand did you bring back?
#### John Player Red
HMRC How long did they last?
#### l'm not sure, l couldn't tell you.
Mr ##### then read my notebook and signed that the above conversation was a true account. I
then searched the baggage that Mr ##### said was his and it contained.
3940 Sovereign KSF
3000 Ronson KSF
3.6KG Domingo Blue HRT
1.2KG Domingo Green HRT
HMRC I then read the commerciality statement to Mr ##### from an aide memoire.
HMRC Do you have any medical conditions that will effect your interview or any special
needs?
#### No
HMRC Mr ##### again again signed my notebook.
HMRC Do you have any open packs of cigarettes on you now?
#### Yes, l've got 2 and a half cigs left
HMRC Do you have any open tobacco?
#### Yes, l've got a tin with rolls in
HMRC Do you use a rolling machine?
#### Yes
HMRC Where is it?
#### lt's at home. l just brought he tin with me and been smoking them in Spain.
HMRC You have been smoking cigs?
#### Yes
HMRC Why did you tell me the cigs were for your wife and you only smoke tobacco?
#### l always smoke them on holiday because l can't be bothered to roll them.
HMRC What do you smoke in England?
#### Rollys
HMRC What brand?
#### Domingo
HMRC Where do you get your Domingos from?
#### Last time l was away
HMRC In December
HMRC How much did you bring back then, you said none before?
#### Something daft like 150 packets
HMRC Have you got any left?
#### Yes in the house
HMRC How many?
#### About 20
HMRC Do you have any cigs left from last time?
#### No
HMRC When did they run out?
#### A while back. A few months
HMRC How much does she pay in England?
#### A fiver a packet in the shop
HMRC Why have you brought different brands such as Sovereign and Ronson?
#### I bought the Sovereign first and the wife will smoke them.Someone will tell me the
Ronson are cheaper
HMRC Why did you buy the Domingo blue and green?
#### The green is for the grandson
HMRC Why did you not tell me before that the tobacco was for your grandson?
#### It's for me the wife and the grandson
HMRC How many packs does he smoke a week?
#### A couple. Something like that
HMRC Does he smoke your Domingo?
#### He's only been there 6 or 7 weeks
HMRC Did you pay cash?
#### Let me work it out. l don't know.
HMRC Why do you have photocopied receipts?
#### l don't know. They must have given them me
HMRC They gave you photocopied receipts in the shop?
#### l went in and they said come back later so l picked it up later
HMRC Are you working?
#### No
HMRC When did you last work?
#### Years ago
HMRC How much do you get in the household a month?
#### 2500-3000 a month
HMRC Does your wife work?
#### Nurse, l should imagine £1700 a month. l think she works nights and overtime.
HMRC How much do you earn?
#### My disability is roughly £650 a month
HMRC How much is the mortgage?
#### About £500
HMRC What after bills?
#### The wife does that. l don't know how many that is.
HMRC How many rolls do you smoke a day?
#### l don't know
HMRC Can you tell me roughly?
#### No
HMRC Do you always buy your tobacco abroad?
#### Yes
HMRC When was the last time you bought tobacco in England?
#### 2 or 3 years at least
HMRC When was the last time you brought cigs back before December?
#### November, the month before
HMRC How many did you bring back in November?
#### Not that many. l don't know.
HMRC How many trips abroad do you make to buy cigs a year?
#### Not many. 3 or 4
HMRC How much money did you take with you?
#### 740 Euros plus some when l was out there
HMRC How much did you get there?
#### 500
HMRC What was that for?
#### l ordered that first and then got some more
HMRC So you went out and ordered Sovereigns and then went out and thought l'll buy some Ronsons today?
#### Yes
HMRC How long will the tobacco last?
#### l smoke 3 or 4 a week. The blue Domingo will last me till the new year.
HMRC How long will the cigs last your wife?
#### l don't know. She smokes about 40 a day
HMRC Why did you not bring back JPS Red this time?
#### Somebody told me Sovereigns were ok
HMRC But you bought the cheapest last time
#### Yes she smokes JPS Red
Mr ##### again signed my notebook that the above was a true account of the interview
I seized all the goods at 21.05 hrs for the following reasons.
1. Smoking habit not credible
2. Mixed brands
3. Vague about the amount he has bought.
4. Goods exceed MILS
5. Pax has photocopied receipts
6. Vague about who the cigs and tobacco were for
7. Pax stated that he smoked tobacco then he said he smoked cigarettes. Pax stated that he bought tobacco in December, earlier said he didn't.
I then issued Mr ##### with C156, warning letter,notice 1 and notice 12a.
Smoking habit not credible???
ReplyDeleteI used to smoke rollies, Fags, anything with bloody tobacco in that was going cheap, I tehn went onto a pipe. Somedays I could smoke two pouches of tobacco, sometimes one would last me all week.
WTF is a "credible habit"?
Yes Furor, this is the sort of crap that HMRC come out with. Not only was this shoppers smoking credible but his figures backed it up too.
ReplyDeleteFurther more:- HMRC reason 2. Mixed brands? ... was explained entirely. Reason 3. Vague about amount he bought? ... duh! Reason 4. Goods exceed MILS? ... it's a bloody guideline and nothing more. Reason 5. Photocopied receipts? ... actually it was just one, the rest were original but so what? Reason 6. Vague about who goods were for? ... what? shopper explained entirely. Reason 7. Pax stated that he smoked tobacco then he said he smoked cigarettes. Pax stated that he bought tobacco in December, earlier said he didn't. .... shopper said he smoked cigs as well as tobacco but he did get mixed up on Dec purchase but given his circumstances is there any wonder?????
This man was interrogated more thoroughly than a murderer or terrorist so I assume they found a body in his luggage.
ReplyDeleteJust came back from Spain, thankfully had no bother, am going again in September, but after reading the above I will be taking a recorder with me and if stopped will record the interrogation.
Very wise precaution Anon ... one should think of it as travel insurance :)
ReplyDeleteHMRC Are you aware or customs guidelines as far as cigarettes or tobacco are concerned?
ReplyDelete#### Yes
HMRC Do you have any cigs or tobacco?
#### Yes loads
HMRC How much?
#### Sorry, l can't sell them to you, That's illegal
Reminds me of when you grilled me in Sofia SH. Know how to fucking handle the twats now. Nice one
ReplyDeleteSmall points
ReplyDeleteHow many EU citizens (Non UK) have had any tobacco siezed. How many business travellers(regular) have had tobacco siezed. I have been stopped several times at airports and sea ports
but I have only seen poorly dressed Brits
in the final solution rooms . Wonder why?
I lived behind the Iron Curtain in the seventies
and let me make this quite clear to any prying
eyes who aggree with this treatment of British Subjects or participte in its execution.
You are little more than Judases and Quislings,
you would probably sell out your own mother and father for a few silver pieces or a nice juicy
pension.It is now becoming an embarrassment to
admit being British.
Born to be free ,not a slave
Anon ... l dress down on purpose for that very reason when faced with HMRC. I don't try to avoid them, l actively seek their attention. l can't fight them if l don't confront them. They do indeed judge a book by it's cover and it's so gratifying when it dawns on them that it is not the book they thought it was. Not that it stops them going through their repetoire ... they can't stop themselves. Next on my list is to film a whole incident and put it on the web ... and by hook or by crook l will. They operate behind the veil of secrecy that you, yourself, would know about whilst living behind the lron Curtain ... l intend to shed some light on it. l am not embarrassed about being British because l don't see them or those who support them as being such. l seem them in the same vein as l see the Vichy French.
ReplyDeletegreat stuff smoking. bet hmrc are spitting feathers your doing this
ReplyDeleteInteresting that they choose the photocopied receipt as a reason. Shows how little they know about about EU shopkeepers. The mark-up on cigarettes/tobacco is not great and so when these shopkeepers get large orders many tend to lose the transaction on their books to avoid paying extra tax.
ReplyDeleteThe credible smoking habits will be down to maths. HMRC Officers are not known for their mathematical skills. I know this from experience and have had to correct them.
How true that you advise to go prepared. To do otherwise is sheer folly. This example you have posted demonstrates it. The shopper was lucky to get them back as he made many errors.
Skywalker ... l don't really think he made many errors. The only real error he made was trusting the HMRC Officer. This is the downfall of many travellers as they expect HMRC Officers to be professional but sadly this is rarely the case. This particular officer made no attempt to get to the facts as can be seen by the transcript. He was obviously mentally ticking boxes in order to confiscate the goods ... nothing more, nothing less.
ReplyDeleteMaths are indeed very important and l agree that maths from some of these HMRC Officers is not a high standard. Strange how the results they come to are always in their favour ... unless you correct them.
So folks, do your maths/dates before you set off on your shopping trip. Check them and then check them again. Then wrte them down and take them with you ... with a copy. Write them down so you understand them and when stopped by HMRC, give them a copy. Maths don't lie, they are either correct or wrong ... period!
Most guys don't know the ins and outs of their home finances as their wives do them. The guys give the wives their money and then get some pocket money :) So tell HMRC this, it's natural and most people do it. Turn it round and ask the HMRC Officer if he knows the mortgage, rates, utility bills. Questions can be directed at them ... you have a right to do this.
Once the HMRC Officer can't use maths against you he has very little to work with .... and don't forget, no story telling! The less you say, the less they have. Facts only and then shut up!