All docs re:- 155.4 cartons of 200 L&B (31,080), 7.5kg Samson tobacco confiscated and returned on appeal, 2007

I want to thank the people who have sent me their stories and documents regarding their experiences of HMRC, l realise it's a big decision to make and for that l again thank you. Also, if anyone knows of any solicitors that has represented them in appeals l'd be obliged if you would furnish me with their details. lt's difficult to find a solicitor that will represent you in these matters. Why? ... l don't know but if we can put a list together it will help people who have had their goods confiscated and are appealing or have failed their appeal and are then going to court ... every little helps! :).

117 cartons(20,340) cigarettes, 1.6kg tobacco, 1 blue film all confiscated ... then returned to shopper after appeal. 2000

l'll have the written appeal in a few days so l'll put that up as well. You'll note that the HMRC Officer put the date down as November when it was date stamped October. Also he put Obscene Video Tape when he hadn't even seen it. The shopper refused to sign the seizure document.Note also that the goods are mixed L&B, Superkings and Samson tobacco.

Update

Finally got the appeal and HMRC replies but there's a hell of a lot of it so l'll give you the summary and put the originals up later when personal details have been taken out. 

Mr M was stopped at Liverpool airport with the above amount. Mr M had chosen to fly to Spain for his cigarettes as they were far cheaper than France as indeed they still are today. The Dover-Calais run is not for cigarettes but is still ok for tobacco but Belgium is preferred. Here 'up North' people use the Hull-Zeebrugge ferry which is P&O but in those days was North Sea Ferries but as Mr M wanted primarily cigarettes and not tobacco, the ferry was not an option.

When stopped by HMRC Officer Kirkbride, Mr M soon discovered that despite Mr M being totally legal and supplying the correct answers Officer Kirkbride was intent on confiscating Mr M's goods no matter what. This he indeed did but Mr M refused to sign the notice as it was not factual  in his opinion. Note, these were the days of the guidelines of 800 cigarettes (4 cartons)

Mr M then appealed to HMRC giving details of why the amount of goods he bought was for personal use, details of gifts, details of finance and so on. Mr M also put in a formal letter of complaint against Officer Kikbride.

Mr M won his appeal and got a letter of apology from HMRC. HMRC thought that was the end of the matter but Mr M pursued his complaint and eventually the outcome was a response from the Director of North HMRC. In it he stated that Mr M was correct in his complaint and the procedures used by HMRC officers were wrong and as a result HMRC officers would be re-trained. Mr M also got apologies from this Director

Mr M continues his shopping from the EU and l thank him for allowing me to post his documentation on this. Too many are afraid of the HMRC because of the myths surrounding them when, in fact, they are akin to the Wizard of Oz. 

Update

 Sent edited docs back for approval of Mr M. In meantime got approved docs back for another confiscation, appeal and return of goods

Watch this space!

Going to be busy organising, scanning, transcribing for a few days but l shall be posting the following shortly:-

UK shopping couple travelling circa Jan 2007 from Spain had total of 155.4 cartons of 200 L&B (31,080), 7.5kg Samson tobacco confiscated at Luton Airport ... returned upon appeal (no court case)

Same UK couple travelling circa Oct 2004 from Spain had total of  98.8 cartons of 200 L&B (19,760) confiscated at Glasgow airport .... returned upon appeal (no  court case)

Single UK  person travelling circa October  2000 from Spain had total of  117 cartons of 200 L&B / Superkings (23,400) , 1.6kg Samson tobacco (plus 1 obscene video tape :)  )confiscated at Liverpool airport ... all returned upon appeal (no court case)

Single UK person travelling from Spain circa July 2008. Complete court case incl HMRC officers notebook and his interrogation notes and answers given << going to be really interesting. Can show how they try and trap you and then we'll show how you should answer. Outcome ... goods returned to shopper

27kg of tobacco (540 x 50gm pouches) bought by EU Shopper, stopped by UK Customs and still brought them home!

l'm going to blog about this very shortly. l'm waiting for a scan of the official HMRC/UKBA form he got issued with stating the amount he brought back home. Thought that would be a little more impressive than just blogging about it. lt will validate the post m'thinks. :) Ties in with the P&O post

Update

As some of you will have noticed ... l got it slightly wrong in the original post. The total is 27kg not 22.5kg which amounts to 540 x 50gm pouches. l'd missed the extra 4.5kg. :) Now rectified

There's a great deal of hearsay/rumours/false information on the net regarding what you can and what you can't bring back for personal use from the EU. Most of it seems to come from what people have heard from 'the man in the pub' (those that are still open) or the 'failed' shopper who was totally unprepared when stopped by UK Customs.

The legitimate shopper is wrongly associated by default with the shoppers that are not legitimate. HMRC see no difference between shoppers at the border ... period. lt is up to the legitimate shopper to be prepared for this. lf he doesn't he will be like a sheep in a pack of wolves. The rights or wrongs of this do matter but it is simply a fact of life that at the moment this is the way it is. Will it change? ... l doubt it.

So what you are left with is a potentially threatening situation that you have to deal with. You will be spending not an unsubstantial sum of money in order to save yourself a similar amount. lt's just a case of basic economics. l find it strange that many people (mostly non-smokers) can't see the logic of this. Yet, if you say to them 'If you could buy petrol at 50p a litre and can bring back as much as you like for personal use, how much would you bring back?' ... a light seems to be turned on and understanding then comes to them. This then puts into context the HMRC's 'guidelines' ... using the petrol example, if HMRC said their guideline was 160 litres yet you could afford and transport 1600 litres ... everyone would bring 1600 litres. There's no difference when purchasing tobacco/cigarettes!

There are some HMRC Officers that understand this but they are in the minority l've found. Too often is the mindset that they must try and confiscate everything that is brought into the UK regardless of the circumstances. To this end, these officers will try to find any excuse to do this. One of the most widely used is 'How often do you travel or have travelled?'. This is based on the assumption that everytime you travel abroad you bring back large quantities of tobacco/alcohol.

Or, put another way,  if you go to Asda and buy 2 bottles of whisky ... everytime you go back to Asda you buy 2 bottles of whisky. lt doesn't matter if you have to pop-in to Asda for just a bottle of milk ... they assume you bought 2 bottles of whisky!

Travel abroad is cheap and in many cases cheaper than a weekend away in the UK and so people take advantage of it. They see and enjoy the sites and cultures of other countries. lt widens their understanding of different nationalities and in so doing removes a lot of prejudices. This is a good thing and there can be nothing negative about travelling abroad. Except of course ... if you are a smoker! Your travels abroad will be held against you ... period! Your motives will be questioned, your finances will be questioned, your employment will be questioned, your relationships will be questioned ... and all because you are a smoker!

lt's as though you have sewn on the arm of your jacket a symbol that ostracizes you from the rest of society. You are harassed, intimidated and victimised for being a smoker. The only sympathy for your plight comes from other smokers. Your rights and freedom to travel are constantly infringed. Whole coachloads are marched off coaches to be interrogated interviewed. lf you dare argue back they will interrogate interview you further ... till you are blackmailed to either leaving your goods or missing your coach and then left stranded. lt matters not that you could even be a WW2 vet that fought against such tyranny ... you are a smoker! Worse still is that if you are in your own vehicle it could be also confiscated simply on the whim of a HMRC officer ... and left stranded in another country. This is a whim mind, no evidence is necessary ... they simply only have to 'believe' that you are guilty. The 'believe' scenario is nothing more than an attempt at justification for any form of victimisation they deem to inflict upon you. Why? ... because you are a smoker!

Don't let them do this! Fight back!  lf you are going abroad to buy your alcohol/tobacco ... go prepared and not with just a hope you won't get stopped. Question them, ask for their name and number (often covered up by flak jacket), don't be intimidated, question everything and most of all, don't be subservient. All it does is empower them more. Take control from them ... you do have rights so use them. They may put over to you that they have the power of life and death ... but they haven't. They only have if you let them so it's up to you not to allow them to intimidate you. lf you don't know how to prepare yourself ... find someone who does and learn from them.

lt's up to you!

HMRC may even give you a certificate proving you know your rights ... see pic! :)