ln reality we are all isolated and instead of constantly trying to get ourselves organised as a group lets use what we have. The government pay attention every time to one thing in particular, and it's the one thing they are short of ... money.
YOU are in control of whether they get that money or not. lt's the tax on tobacco/cigarettes and it is not an insignificant amount.
A pack of 20 cigarettes cost on average £5.70 and from that £5.70 the government get £4.40! ... yes £4.40.
Golden Virginia tobacco costs £12.12 and from that the government get £8.60 ... yes £8.60 (source)
The government then use that money to fund such as ASH and other anti-smoking groups. So YOU are paying your enemies to treat you like pariahs. ls that insanity or what?
A single smoker who smokes 20 cigarettes a day pays the government £39.90 a week, which is £2074.80 a year. 40 a day ... £4149.60 a year! STOP PAYING THEM!
Every pack of 20 cigarettes you buy in the EU puts approx £3.50 back in your pocket and the UK government gets nothing ... zilch!
Go to the EU and pay on average approx £2.20 for the same cigarettes that would cost you £5.70 in the UK. Preferably go to pro-smoking countries like Bulgaria and let them have the excise duty and vat. lt's 100% legal and is your right as an EU citizen. Do groups like FOREST promote this sort of thing? Can somebody tell me?
You rolling tobacco guys will also make huge savings but l've no idea of how many rollies you get out of a 50gm pouch so can't do my calculations. Maybe someone can tell me how many?
l know some of you are already doing this but get more to do it. Organise little pockets of resistance. Let them tell their friends, and their friends tell their friends. Make it grow. Stop moaning on the web and do something positive. The government will notice then and perversely they'll make it look even worse because they'll over-estimate the statistics like they always have done when used against smokers.
lt's a win-win for smokers. You end up with more money in your pockets and the government end up with none! There's lots of details on this blog on how to shop in the EU as is your right but if you are still unsure e-mail me with any questions. I'll gladly answer them.
You veteran resistance fighters ... help others to help themselves. We maybe fragmented but we are many and that's a great deal of tax we have control of. Don't give it to our oppressors!
Oh, and don't forget your bottles of spirits when shopping .... less tax for the UK government.
Update
Anon in comments 21.54 .... with your figures that'd be roughly £18.7 Billion for cigarette tax and £2.7 Billion for rolling tobacco.
Total would be £21.4 Billion lost to treasury or if you want £21,400,000,000. :)
Yep I buy abroad .
ReplyDeleteOnly a sucker buys here.
6 friends went to Belgium yesterday in one car to buy tobacco and cigarettes for themselves and a couple of friends (plus the odd packets for the local shopkeepers !!)
ReplyDeleteEstimated loss to the Treasury according to the above figures was around £25,000.00
Multipy this by 12 million smokers and I think that the Government 'may' start to notice !!
The average loose tobacco user would probably get through 2 pouches a week for an average 20 a day smoker.
Someone with a head for figures could work out the total sum lost to the Treasury if say 75% of the 12 million smokers smoked cigarettes and the remaining 25% used hand rolling tobacco. Average 2 pouches (50 grams) for the hand rollers and 7 packets a week of ready made cigarettes for the cigarette smokers.
Me. Belgium. 7th August. Loads of cash. ;)
ReplyDeleteKeep government funding for ASH, they want cigarettes more taxed! ;)
ReplyDeleteAnon .... with your figures that'd be roughly £18.7 Billion for cigarette tax and £2.7 Billion for rolling tobacco.
ReplyDeleteTotal would be £21.4 Billion lost to treasury or if you want £21,400,000,000. :)
Hi Smokin Hot,
ReplyDeleteWith careful rolling you can get 400-450 cigarettes out of a 50gram pack of GV no problem.
Thanks Anon 22.25, l'll keep with Anon 21.54 figures and use ASH tactics. :)
ReplyDeletenever seen FOREST promote anything like this. think its too aggressive and radical for them. sometimes l think that they're funded by government to keep us smokers quiet.l dont rate much them at all.
ReplyDeleteSee your point Macka. Forest are doing this
ReplyDelete# Consultation Response
# Lobby your MP
# Write to the media
# Contribute to our case studies project
Oooo scary. l'm with SH.
Not everyone has the money to go and buy abroad so they either have to pay full UK price or buy from the black market. Personally l hope they all buy off the black market. We're criminalised anyway so why not? Another thing, l have no problem with a group of mates putting together and buying abroad, l know the HMRC do, but stuff 'em.
ReplyDeleteCan't disagree with any of that, micktransit. SH is right, hit them where it hurts!
ReplyDelete400-450 out of a 50g pack of tobacco? mmm maybe prisoners who have to make 12.5g last a week. Let's be realistic. I would say the AVERAGE was 120 - 160 out of a 50g pack.
ReplyDeleteI am in the 120 per 50g camp. That is still about 80p for 20 at Spanish prices, which is where all my tobacco comes from.
Thanks timbone ... l thought it was a lot too. Good man ... another member of the Resistance!
ReplyDeleteMicktransit - interesting name. I get my baccy from Man with a Van. Maybe it's you!
ReplyDeleteI smoke rollups so have never counted numbers of cigarettes. For me, I get 5-7 days out of a 50g pack, depending on how busy I am. Less busy = more smoking.
After five days though, it starts to get a bit dry.
I roll the missus 10 per day (not big fat ones either) and will roll another 3-5 for her in the evening when she gets home, and I smoke about 15 per day on average, a pack lasts 3-4 days, so 100-120 is about right for a 50 gm pack, will count the next one for you...
ReplyDeleteOh yes I may buy 3-4 of my yearly packs from the taxman...the rest of course are gifts from friends who go abroad...
The 'official' figures for roll ups are
ReplyDeletethin rollies [hand rolled] (5.2mm diameter ) 0.4 grams per cigarette which is 125 per 50 gr pouch
thick (machine rolled) 7.2 mm diameter 0.75 grams per cigarette 66 cigarettes per 50 gr pouch
Source Imperial tobacco Belgian GV packets.
However I use a machine and 6 mm filters. No figures available! I reckon I get about 100 per pouch.
yours blobby
This idea of buying in Bulgaria, or wherever "East", is a dodgy one.
ReplyDeleteYou bring any more than 200 over the border from Poland, for example, but ALL countries East of Frankfurt, they will be seized, and you will get a juicy fine into the bargain. And that goes, even if you are only "passing through" Germany.
Furor Teutonicus ... lt isn't dodgy if one flies in and for the purpose of buying cigarettes/tobacco that would be direct flights from UK with someone like Easyjet or Wizzair. l'd avoid Ryanair as their baggage allowances are farcical. Wizzair is now 32kg for hold luggage.
ReplyDeleteBeen taking people to Bulgaria and Poland for a while now and there has been no problems. Questions have been asked by Customs in both countries on a number of occassions but again no problems.
Top Spot ,Smoking hot.
ReplyDeleteScribbling and parroting ,pursued by most of the "Campaigns"has got freedom NOWHERE
Politicians and health wackos need to feel some
excitement in their pockets and purses as well as the occasional "person to person" rumble.
Unfortunately as we all know most smokers are
lazy,apathetic,cowardly arseholes so asking them to pop over to Belgium would seem like a year on the Somme.
Last year I promoted a trip to REUS on some
"campaign" sites £15 inc flight and stay 1 night
Response Zilch,Zero.Null
Stood outside a fringe meeting at last years
Con Conferenc I noticed most had packets with
UK PAID on . These were supposed to be the
Warlords of the Resistance,goodness knows what the footsoldiers were doing ,probably giving out
ASH leaflets.
PS
Hull to Zeebugge 4 persons £54 Ret Each(2 Nights)
Dover to Calais 4+car Day trip from £25
No passport ?........Get one
No time ?.............Find some
No money?..............Borrow some
No interest...........BUZZ OFF and carry on
financing a government which treats you like shit
Northern Fighters
XX Smoking Hot said...
ReplyDeleteFuror Teutonicus ... lt isn't dodgy if one flies in and for the purpose of buying cigarettes/tobacco that would be direct flights from UK with someone like Easyjet or Wizzair.XX
Ahhh, NOW I remember, we have spoken over this before on one of the sites.
Furor Teutonicus ... yes l think so. Prob on here somewhere. You make a valid and knowledgeable point and people should take note that travelling through countries in a vehicle with amounts of tobacco is fraught with hazzards ... despite the supposed EU Free Trade agreements.
ReplyDeleteANON 12.56 Yes, the theme of DeGaulle, Vichy French and the Resistance seems very apt. Even the Resistance had the same issues. There were very brave men and women of the Resistance but were few and got little backing from their own countrymen. Of course when the war was over EVERYBODY had been in the Resistance and claiming the laurels. If the smoking ban ever gets reformed we shall see the same.
ReplyDeletel'll continue to call real fighters of the smoking ban the Resistance. None of us would be seen dead with a pack of UK Paid cigarettes etc ... unless we found some that had fallen off the back of a lorry! :)
To me, the apathy of some smokers is the same as stupidity. Anyone who gives thousands of pounds to the very people that are persecuting them doesn't border on insanity ... it is insanity.
Yep - I'm currently living on tobacco bought from Italy. However, be warned, Pisa airport is very anti-smoking and tobacco is practically hidden with little choice available. Buy it in the country instead. It is the same price as the airport.
ReplyDeleteBefore that my personal supply was bought from Amsterdam - a great smoker friendly city. My daughter goes on holiday next month and will restock my supply when she brings me tobacco back from Spain.
SH, I'd like to try Bulgaria next time so please send me any links you have to cheap flights and accom (Smoking if poss, please). I'm also thinking of Budapest. Lovely city, very smoker friendly, and local tobacco very cheap - about £2.50 a pack, if I recall correctly.
Great campaign, brilliant idea. Let's show them how much that stand to lose by treating us so badly :)
Pat, take a look at Wizzair (32 KG baggage allowance) to Sofia, airports are pretty close to you l think. Sofia airport Terminal 1 is smoker friendly. Don't buy tobacco at Sofia Airport as it's more expensive than in the city. Accomodation etc is hard to find in Bulgaria that ISN'T smoker friendly!
ReplyDeleteLet me know closer to the time you're going and l'll mail you accommodation choices and info on taxis etc. Taxis are cheap in Sofia and Bulgaria.
Thanks SH. I certainly will. I should have enough to last me until September so I'll be in touch nearer that time.
ReplyDeleteSH As a member of the Resistance, is there a badge, motif or something we can have that is appropiate?
ReplyDeleteOooh - yes! I want one. I still wear my F2C badge with pride. I'd love one to say I'm a resistance fighter :)
ReplyDeleteCount me in as part of the resistance and i shall pass on the word to my mates as we stand outside the pub tonight like we usually do, yes badges or even T shirts sound like a good idea anything to spread the word, we now have to start taking some pro active action ourselves, FOREST are just a joke (have you been on their site?)a protest to them is to go and have a drink on a yacht on the Thames, a waste of space,its about we smokers got organised and started fighting back.
ReplyDeleteDon't be so hard on Forest. It is a good organisation for standing our corner in the press - as much as it is allowed - and the parties are good for morale. And it is a friend. we don't have many of those with links to MPs and decision makers.
ReplyDeleteI think many of us wish it was more active but then maybe it would be accused of being "militant" and lose the support of politicians.
What is needed is for us all to work together and support campaigns and events and spread the word on things such as this act of Resistance. I can't see why Forest wouldn't support it. It's legal.
If we keep slagging off one of our only supporters, then Forest will never come on side with this or anything else we try to do and we do need it.
Anon .... with your figures that'd be roughly £18.7 Billion for cigarette tax and £2.7 Billion for rolling tobacco.
ReplyDeleteTotal would be £21.4 Billion lost to treasury or if you want £21,400,000,000. :)
That seems a good estimate. The good part is that the figure of £10.2 billion is often quoted as the figure received by the Treasury each year on tobacco products showing that over half of the U.K. smokers are indeed going abroad or buying their smokes from sources that don't contribute to the Government.
That is good news and hopefully as more people come to their senses that figure of £10.2 billion will reduce dramatically !!
The only problem is that the anti smoking zealots and fake organisations like ASH etc. will claim that as revenue diminishes the only explanation is that people are not smoking as much !! That will guarantee them their lucrative jobs for a while longer :-(
Not if we can publicise the campaign and make it known that we are not smoking less... and there is where an organisation like Forest could help us.
ReplyDeletePat, l didn't intend on being too harsh. Maybe it would be better if l thought of them as the Political Wing as they have the political contacts. l'm sure they'd be happy to pass on to these politicians any results we have and saying that it probably is better that we are not connected. They then can't be accussed of damaging the UK economy and the like?
ReplyDeleteEssex Witch ... l'm sure we can do something along the line of making it known how many of our Resistance flags, pins etc are distributed. Each one would signify a smoker and then we would have statistics to throw at them. Statistics that are under our control :) because they would have no way of disproving them. Wouldn't it be wondefully gratifying that we use ASH's own tactics against them? :) A few Resistance stickers on ASH's HQ, Nick Clegg's constituency offices etc ... take pics and then put them on the web? :)
SH it was Frosty's comment above mine that I looked at when I said don't be harsh on Forest.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone asked Simon Clark if he would support this kind of campaign and help us organise/promote trips abroad or just spread the word?
If we could organise such trips, it would be great fun and a brilliant way of enjoying social trips
Im sorry Pat i still feel FOREST are a waste of time, 3 years on from the ban and where are we? I do understand your concerns as to alienating ourselves from a group that do have the ear of the media but i feel we now must take some form of more drastic action that maybe FOREST will not condone,read the antismoking comments in any newspaper whenever a smoking related article is published,we are becoming pariahs,outcasts,lets not be under any illusions ASH are winning this battle hands down we have got to find a way of turning the tide,if all the SHS science really is junk then surely we would be better off hiring a legal team to fight our case,maybe an online campaign to raise funds to get a good lawyer and take our own Government and ASH to court? When Simon Clark stands up and organises a campaign like this then i might begin to have some faith in FOREST.
ReplyDeleteFrosty - I agree with all you say about the liars at ASH winning but that's only because they have more money. We simply have truth on our side.
ReplyDeleteYes, I do think Forest could more to help in an active way but I just don't think we should argue among ourselves, and if we do, we should not wash our dirty linen in public.
That just plays into the anti-smoking industry's hands.
I repeat - has anyone asked Simon about getting involved in this? He has no problem with legal activity. I left a post on his blog somewhere but not sure if he replied to it.
I guess Dave A or Dick P are the best bet to approach and ask.
Honestly i never meant to cause any in fighting with anyone, i read Pats blog and respect her opinion very much, im just getting a bit frustrated we all seem to be banging our heads against a brick wall and if anything the situation seems to be getting worse not better,it seems to me the nicey nicey approach is not working asking for concessions etc, we must come up with some sort of direct action and soon.
ReplyDeleteFrosty - me too. You will note I had my own rant about Forest. But I promise to bite my tongue next time :( What I say to you I take on board also :)
ReplyDeleteThis might interest some of you, Smokefree North West have started a campaign about 'illegal tobacco':
ReplyDeletehttp://www.journalism.co.uk/66/articles/539776.php
http://get-some-answers.co.uk/
Thanks VN - Scum, frankly, trying to align tobacco with drug and criminal activity and then creating a crisis by using "concerned parents" and "chiiildren."
ReplyDeleteBy Fake tobacco, they mean the real stuff that's bought abroad but hasn't been dealt to the public via Govt so Smoke Free stands to lose it's nice little funding earner.
Sheesh - why is the general public thick enough to fall for this?
We have a problem with black market tobacco falling into the hands of the underage because of the high UK tax on it and the moves by Ash etc to hike it up more. Simple as that.
These anti-smoking freaks are trying to create public panic to save their own necks.
Keep up the good work SH, they must be shitting it because of your campaign - hence the hate-mongering through fear and lies that is beginning
Join the Resistance. Buy abroad. Stop UK finding to the anti-smoking industry NOW! carry the Flag and show 'em you've had enough!
This is my opinion. FOREST is sponsored by tobacco companies, always has been. I would think that there are conditions which, if broken, would lose sponsorship, and see the end of FOREST. I would say that there are very strong conditions that FOREST do not get involved in anything which could compromise the tobacco industry. Let's be honest, ASH (who FOREST were set up to counter), are well aware of FORESTs financial support, and the tobacco industry are very vulnerable to being compromised, especially since the Master Settlement Agreement in 1998.
ReplyDeleteThanks VN
ReplyDeleteThey have the audacity to call this journalism????
"A recent You Gov survey** highlighted that 74 per cent of people support a crackdown on tobacco smuggling"
Yeah right, 25% of the country smoke which leaves mmmmmmm 75% :)
"Illegal tobacco"
Tobacco isn't illegal, it's the selling of it that's deemed illegal by HMRC. Although l wonder if you buy it from Asda and then sell it, is that illegal? mmmmm.
"fake cigarettes" ??? 8000 bought them? Regularly? Duh! These cigarettes are fake ... l'll buy some more! :) These teens were taking the piss. Good joke by them, survey swallowed it hook, line and sinker
Love the bit about cigarettes having foreign writing on them. Duh! ... anybody told them we're in the EU?
Bloody Nulab made 10,000's of kids criminals by raising the age of buying cigarettes to 18. Where did they expect the 16yr old smokers to go now they were barred from purchasing cigarettes?
Journalism has become just "cut and paste". Real journalists are becoming an endangered species.
Pat ... l think you're right ... they are scared and we havent even started yet! :)
Yes, EU cigs are very educational. I can say Smoking Kills, smoking causes pulmonary diseases, and smoking while pregnant can kill your baby etc ... in several different languages.
ReplyDeleteNuLab made many thousands more law abiding people criminals with their stupid laws.
Gonna do my bit against this Government this month.Haven't needed any for 18 months as my last supply from Spain has lasted me rather well. Off to Brussels this time though, so gotta work out if I can get GV in Brussels and pay for it in sterling, otherwise will have to travel through to Ostend, wish me luck :)
ReplyDeleteBest of luck my friend ... be prepared!
ReplyDelete