Written correspondence to HMRC regarding EU shopping
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To intenquiries@hmrc.gov.co.uk 13th June 2010
Dear Sir or Madam,
please answer in full the following specific questions. Thank you.
1. What do HMRC consider to be the shelf life of (a) rolling tobacco and (b) cigarettes?
2. Do HMRC consider a bank loan, private loan or credit card acceptable to purchasing alcohol/tobacco in the EU to bring back to UK for personal use? This is in ref to one of your questions you may ask (as per HMRC advice) if l were to be stopped by HMRC upon my return to UK. .... how you paid for them
3. The alcohol/tobacco would be for my wife and myself although my wife would not be travelling with me to purchase the goods in the EU and bring them back to the UK. (a) is this acceptable? or (b) are they classed as gifts?
Thank you,
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Reply from HMRC
CUSTOMS, INTERNATIONAL TRADE & EXCISE ENQUIRIES
Crownhill Court
Tailyour Road
Plymouth
PL6 5BZ
Tel 01752 755723
Fax 01752 765807
Email intenquiries@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk
Date 15/06/2010
Our Ref #### - ##### www.hmrc.gov.uk
Your Ref
Dear Danny
Thank you for your email sent on 13 June 2010 regarding bringing alcohol and tobacco into the UK from other EU countries.
When arriving into the UK from an EU country you can bring in an unlimited amount of most goods.
For excise goods such as alcohol and tobacco, there are no restrictions. However you must meet the conditions below:
• You transport the goods yourself.
• The goods are for your own use or as a gift. If the person you give the goods to pays you in any way (including reimbursing you for any expenses or payment in kind), then it's not a gift and the goods may be seized.
• The goods are duty and tax paid in the EU country where they were acquired.
If you don't meet these conditions, the goods (and any vehicle that transported them) may be seized.
If a customs official from the UK Border Agency (UKBA) thinks you may be bringing in excise goods such as alcohol and tobacco from the EU for commercial use - perhaps to sell to other people or simply for reimbursement - they may ask you questions and make checks.
You may be asked about:
• the type and quantity of goods you’ve bought
• why you bought them
• how you paid for them
• how often you travel
• how much you normally smoke or drink
The customs official would make their decision when the goods were brought into the UK based on all the information provided in response to the questions asked.
I must emphasise that the advice given is based on the information you have supplied. If the nature of the transaction changes in technical detail, or the relevant details provided were incomplete or incorrect, we will not be bound by this ruling.
We are currently experiencing higher than usual call volumes on the National Advice Helpline following the issue of VAT Mandation letters. We have trained additional advisors who are handling these calls now and further advisors will join the National Advice Helpline next week. Our National Advice Helpline is open from 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday. The less busy periods are from 8am to 8.30am.
Our NAS Enquiries page on our website provides details of alternative methods of contact.
Yours sincerely
Pam Wormington
Officer of Revenue & Customs
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Reply to Pam Wormington 16th June 2010
Dear Ms Wormington,
l asked specific questions and you have totally ignored them .l did not ask for something that is in your lealets and on your website although these do say that if you have any questions to contact HMRC. Your response is simply not good enough. lf you cannot answer my questions please pass them on to someone else who is capable of doing so.
Once again, here are my specific questions.
Dear Sir or Madam,
please answer in full the following specific questions. Thank you.
1. What do HMRC consider to be the shelf life of (a) rolling tobacco and (b) cigarettes?
2. Do HMRC consider a bank loan, private loan or credit card acceptable to purchasing alcohol/tobacco in the EU to bring back to the UK for personal use? This is in ref to one of your questions you may ask (as per HMRC advice) if l were to be stopped by HMRC upon my return to UK. .... how you paid for them
3. The alcohol/tobacco would be for my wife and myself although my wife would not be travelling with me to purchase the goods in the EU and bring them back to the UK. (a) is this acceptable? or (b) are they classed as gifts?
Thank you,
#####
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What response will our friend Danny get back from HMRC, l wonder? :)
WARNING! Do NOT post ANY questions/requests on this blog regarding ANY issues with Border Force (Customs) We now have a FORUM for this where members will gladly help you. GO TO www.n2d.me/bbs
13 comments:
"In the eyes of the Tribunal the review letter contained several preconceptions, prejudgments and non-sequiturs"
"the absurdity of this reason is demonstrated by simply stating it"
"We therefore find that Mr Sked misdirected himself as to the Policy in carrying out the review and his decision is therefore one that no reasonable review officer could have arrived at."
... commonly known here at N2D as 'Skeds' ... that is to say these are Judges comments regarding UKBA Review Officer Ian Sked's reasons for rejecting peoples appeals against seizures.
Comments are now moderated to keep out spam and those with malicious intent. The author of this blog is not liable for the content of any comments ... period!
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Surely what a customs officer thinks and decides is irrelevant. You are innocent until proven guilty. if they confiscate, aka steal your legally bought goods they are infringing the Treaty of Rome. I'm sure they have been found guilty of this before. If they can prove you sold your fags/tobacco/booze then that's another matter.
ReplyDeleteHermetically sealed tobacco can last years and you can use a humidor too.
l'd like to agree but experience at our borders with UK Customs Officers shows otherwise. These officers use the answers to these questions as a means of confiscating goods off legitimate shoppers. They use many other tactics against shoppers. Remember, most shoppers are scared of Customs and appeals to the court ... unlike myself and you it seems.
ReplyDeletel agree entirely on the tobacco but Customs have been using a benchmark of 6 months shelflife for the purpose of confiscation ... and still do.
Their reluctance to answer the enquiry about shelflife etc shows this to be true, does it not?
If they fail to answer this time, ask them under the FOI act. I believe that they have to answer all FOI act inquiries.
ReplyDeleteYou should always be asking under the FOI act anyway. And when a border agent asks you questions, just answer them in the same way they answered you above!
ReplyDeleteI think the 3rd question was answered - they are a gift if you do not receive any money in return for them. I don't know if sex counts though
I think that the next stage is to send a FOI request and perhaps ask each question in a separate FOI request as HMRC are known to employ idiots and to have to answer 3 questions at once is a bit heavy on their brains.
ReplyDeleteOnce there has been a reply (if he gets one) and depending on the content, l hope Danny takes it further if he doesn't get answers. lf he doesn't l probably will. ln the meantime l'll continue airing HMRC's dirty washing.
ReplyDeleteThanks for everyones input ... appreciated. :)
Anon ... l don't think the 3rd question was answered at all. HMRC only seem to accept the idea of occasional gifts i.e. birthdays and Xmas. Unfortunately my wife doesn't! :)
ReplyDeleteGreat stuff, SH, don't let 'em wriggle out of it. :)
ReplyDeleteSH: Sadly it is a case of give officials power and they will abuse it. Is it for personal use? Yes. I don't believe you. Confiscate. It really is not good enough when it's for 10 or 20 large cartons of fags or pouches of tobacco. I know it happens though. So invoke the treaty of Rome. Be awkward but not nasty or sweary. If they realise you will take it furyher such that they have to defend their actions they may just think it's too much hassle. If they do confiscate I would ask for a reason in writing signed by the officer. I think that is reasonable. they probably won't. Can I see your manager please? They have lost in court re the treaty of Rome before. I would take them to the small claims court for the value of my goods or restitution. If everyone they bugger up did that they would be more careful and focus on real criminals not members of the public legally avoiding the colossal taxes on tobacco and booze that these governments seem perfectly happy with. I'm sure charging VAT on top is a tax on a tax and probably illegal.
ReplyDeleteAny way............BASTARDS!
Chalcedon ... HMRC don't care about the Treaty of Rome or going to court. They don't care if they lose. The courts are civil and nothing has to be proven ... it goes on the balance of probabilities and hearsay is admissable, which HMRC use plenty of. HMRC's intent is to inconvienience shoppers as much as possible so they are wary of shopping abroad again and having to go through it all again if their goods are once again confiscated. And remember that very few people dare go to court against HMRC.
ReplyDeleteHMRC know this and use it constantly to harrass members of the public. l'll be putting up an actual case soon once l get the documents etc from a reader.
l was once an observer at one of these civil cases. There were so many kangaroos in it l thought it l was in Australia!
Hearsay is admissable. Then so too is lying I expect. Bit like a policeman giving his version of events. He is believed. I welcome these helmetcams. Might mean that you stand a chance of being believed.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure yopu are dead right. but if no-one stands up for themselves when what they are doing is perfectly legal then the bastards will walk all over us.
Chalcedon ... the new Sony dictaphones are wonderful, 300hrs recording. :)
ReplyDeleteYes, we are few but hopefully l can convince more to do it. That's the idea of the consultancy, l teach and educate the customers ... then hold their handS coming back to UK.
Good for you SH. Keep it up!
ReplyDelete