Transcript of actual questioning of a shopper by HMRC ... and resulting seizure of goods.

Below is a transcript of an actual interrogation interview. lt ties in with the advice l gave here. The shopper was told that the first part was informal and just a generalisation of the conversation but surprise surprise it turned into a substantial statement for HMRC.

The shopper also tells me that there is quite a bit missing from the second formal  interrogation interview too. He made the mistake of trusting the HMRC Officer as to it's content. One must also remember that the shopper is under considerable stress and just wants to get away ... which is completely natural. The shopper requested some fresh air and a drink of water at one point but was refused. None of this of course is in the HMRC Officers notebook. You should also be made aware that the HMRC Officer specifically asked him about cigarettes/tobacco and not drugs etc. lt is illegal to randomly stop any traveller for the purpose of excise goods but that doesn't concern HMRC in the slightest.

The traps and techniques l previously talked about are all here. There is little attempt at finding the facts. HMRC just look for any reason to confiscate the goods. This so called evidence produced by HMRC would be torn to bits in a criminal court but that's the point, it isn't a criminal court but a civil court. Hearsay is all that is necessary and the balance of probabilities. The reasons given for this particular seizure are weak to say the least and some are just downright lies.

The shopper lost the initial appeal but won in court. l'll cover that in a later post


Interrogation interview

l am an Officer of HMRC currently based at Manchester Airport. On --/07/08 l intercepted a male l now know as ####  ##### D.O.B ##/##/##. Mr #### was travelling from Gerona on flight ######

HMRC Are these your bags?

#### Yes

HMRC Did you pack them yourself?

#### Yes

HMRC Are you aware it is illegal to bring back things such as guns, explosives, drugs or
indecent or obscene material?

#### Yes

HMRC Are you aware or customs guidelines as far as cigarettes or tobacco are concerned?

#### Yes

HMRC Do you have any cigs or tobacco?

#### Yes loads

HMRC How much?

#### I couldn't tell you. I don't know

HMRC Do you smoke?

#### Yes I smoke tobacco and the cigs re for my wife

HMRC How long have you been away for?

#### 2 days

HMRC How many packets do you smoke a week?

#### 3 or 4 a week

HMRC How many rolls do you get out of a packet?

#### I don't know

HMRC What does your wife smoke?

#### The cheapest, whatever l can get her

HMRC How many a week?

#### 40 or 50 a day

HMRC When as the last time you brought cigs or tobacco back?

#### In DEC to Gerona

HMRC What did you bring back?

#### l'm not sure maybe 3-4000 cigs no tobacco.

HMRC ls that all you brought back?

#### Yes

HMRC What brand did you bring back?

#### John Player Red

HMRC How long did they last?

#### l'm not sure, l couldn't tell you.

Mr ##### then read my notebook and signed that the above conversation was a true account. I
then searched the baggage that Mr ##### said was his and it contained.

3940 Sovereign KSF
3000 Ronson KSF
3.6KG Domingo Blue HRT
1.2KG Domingo Green HRT

HMRC I then read the commerciality statement to Mr ##### from an aide memoire.

HMRC Do you have any medical conditions that will effect your interview or any special
needs?

#### No

HMRC Mr ##### again again signed my notebook.

HMRC Do you have any open packs of cigarettes on you now?

#### Yes, l've got 2 and a half cigs left

HMRC Do you have any open tobacco?

#### Yes, l've got a tin with rolls in

HMRC Do you use a rolling machine?

#### Yes

HMRC Where is it?

#### lt's at home. l just brought he tin with me and been smoking them in Spain.

HMRC You have been smoking cigs?

#### Yes

HMRC Why did you tell me the cigs were for your wife and you only smoke tobacco?

#### l always smoke them on holiday because l can't be bothered to roll them.

HMRC What do you smoke in England?

#### Rollys

HMRC What brand?

#### Domingo

HMRC Where do you get your Domingos from?

#### Last time l was away

HMRC In December

HMRC How much did you bring back then, you said none before?

#### Something daft like 150 packets

HMRC Have you got any left?

#### Yes in the house

HMRC How many?

#### About 20

HMRC Do you have any cigs left from last time?

#### No

HMRC When did they run out?

#### A while back. A few months

HMRC How much does she pay in England?

#### A fiver a packet in the shop

HMRC Why have you brought different brands such as Sovereign and Ronson?

#### I bought the Sovereign first and the wife will smoke them.Someone will tell me the
Ronson are cheaper

HMRC Why did you buy the Domingo blue and green?

#### The green is for the grandson

HMRC Why did you not tell me before that the tobacco was for your grandson?

#### It's for me the wife and the grandson

HMRC How many packs does he smoke a week?

#### A couple. Something like that

HMRC Does he smoke your Domingo?

#### He's only been there 6 or 7 weeks

HMRC Did you pay cash?

#### Let me work it out. l don't know.

HMRC Why do you have photocopied receipts?

#### l don't know. They must have given them me

HMRC They gave you photocopied receipts in the shop?

#### l went in and they said come back later so l picked it up later

HMRC Are you working?

#### No

HMRC When did you last work?

#### Years ago

HMRC How much do you get in the household a month?

#### 2500-3000 a month

HMRC Does your wife work?

#### Nurse, l should imagine £1700 a month. l think she works nights and overtime.

HMRC How much do you earn?

#### My disability is roughly £650 a month

HMRC How much is the mortgage?

#### About £500

HMRC What after bills?

#### The wife does that. l don't know how many that is.

HMRC How many rolls do you smoke a day?

#### l don't know

HMRC Can you tell me roughly?

#### No

HMRC Do you always buy your tobacco abroad?

#### Yes

HMRC When was the last time you bought tobacco in England?

#### 2 or 3 years at least

HMRC When was the last time you brought cigs back before December?

#### November, the month before

HMRC How many did you bring back in November?

#### Not that many. l don't know.

HMRC How many trips abroad do you make to buy cigs a year?

#### Not many. 3 or 4

HMRC How much money did you take with you?

#### 740 Euros plus some when l was out there

HMRC How much did you get there?

#### 500

HMRC What was that for?

#### l ordered that first and then got some more

HMRC So you went out and ordered Sovereigns and then went out and thought l'll buy some Ronsons today?

#### Yes

HMRC How long will the tobacco last?

#### l smoke 3 or 4 a week. The blue Domingo will last me till the new year.

HMRC How long will the cigs last your wife?

#### l don't know. She smokes about 40 a day

HMRC Why did you not bring back JPS Red this time?

#### Somebody told me Sovereigns were ok

HMRC But you bought the cheapest last time

#### Yes she smokes JPS Red


Mr ##### again signed my notebook that the above was a true account of the interview

I  seized all the goods at 21.05 hrs for the following reasons.

1. Smoking habit not credible
2. Mixed brands
3. Vague about the amount he has bought.
4. Goods exceed MILS
5. Pax has photocopied receipts
6. Vague about who the cigs and tobacco were for
7. Pax stated that he smoked tobacco then he said he smoked cigarettes. Pax stated that he bought tobacco in December, earlier said he didn't.

I then issued Mr ##### with C156, warning letter,notice 1 and notice 12a.

11 comments:

  1. Smoking habit not credible???

    I used to smoke rollies, Fags, anything with bloody tobacco in that was going cheap, I tehn went onto a pipe. Somedays I could smoke two pouches of tobacco, sometimes one would last me all week.

    WTF is a "credible habit"?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Yes Furor, this is the sort of crap that HMRC come out with. Not only was this shoppers smoking credible but his figures backed it up too.

    Further more:- HMRC reason 2. Mixed brands? ... was explained entirely. Reason 3. Vague about amount he bought? ... duh! Reason 4. Goods exceed MILS? ... it's a bloody guideline and nothing more. Reason 5. Photocopied receipts? ... actually it was just one, the rest were original but so what? Reason 6. Vague about who goods were for? ... what? shopper explained entirely. Reason 7. Pax stated that he smoked tobacco then he said he smoked cigarettes. Pax stated that he bought tobacco in December, earlier said he didn't. .... shopper said he smoked cigs as well as tobacco but he did get mixed up on Dec purchase but given his circumstances is there any wonder?????

    ReplyDelete
  3. This man was interrogated more thoroughly than a murderer or terrorist so I assume they found a body in his luggage.

    Just came back from Spain, thankfully had no bother, am going again in September, but after reading the above I will be taking a recorder with me and if stopped will record the interrogation.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Very wise precaution Anon ... one should think of it as travel insurance :)

    ReplyDelete
  5. HMRC Are you aware or customs guidelines as far as cigarettes or tobacco are concerned?

    #### Yes

    HMRC Do you have any cigs or tobacco?

    #### Yes loads

    HMRC How much?

    #### Sorry, l can't sell them to you, That's illegal

    ReplyDelete
  6. Reminds me of when you grilled me in Sofia SH. Know how to fucking handle the twats now. Nice one

    ReplyDelete
  7. Small points
    How many EU citizens (Non UK) have had any tobacco siezed. How many business travellers(regular) have had tobacco siezed. I have been stopped several times at airports and sea ports
    but I have only seen poorly dressed Brits
    in the final solution rooms . Wonder why?
    I lived behind the Iron Curtain in the seventies
    and let me make this quite clear to any prying
    eyes who aggree with this treatment of British Subjects or participte in its execution.
    You are little more than Judases and Quislings,
    you would probably sell out your own mother and father for a few silver pieces or a nice juicy
    pension.It is now becoming an embarrassment to
    admit being British.

    Born to be free ,not a slave

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anon ... l dress down on purpose for that very reason when faced with HMRC. I don't try to avoid them, l actively seek their attention. l can't fight them if l don't confront them. They do indeed judge a book by it's cover and it's so gratifying when it dawns on them that it is not the book they thought it was. Not that it stops them going through their repetoire ... they can't stop themselves. Next on my list is to film a whole incident and put it on the web ... and by hook or by crook l will. They operate behind the veil of secrecy that you, yourself, would know about whilst living behind the lron Curtain ... l intend to shed some light on it. l am not embarrassed about being British because l don't see them or those who support them as being such. l seem them in the same vein as l see the Vichy French.

    ReplyDelete
  9. great stuff smoking. bet hmrc are spitting feathers your doing this

    ReplyDelete
  10. Interesting that they choose the photocopied receipt as a reason. Shows how little they know about about EU shopkeepers. The mark-up on cigarettes/tobacco is not great and so when these shopkeepers get large orders many tend to lose the transaction on their books to avoid paying extra tax.

    The credible smoking habits will be down to maths. HMRC Officers are not known for their mathematical skills. I know this from experience and have had to correct them.

    How true that you advise to go prepared. To do otherwise is sheer folly. This example you have posted demonstrates it. The shopper was lucky to get them back as he made many errors.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Skywalker ... l don't really think he made many errors. The only real error he made was trusting the HMRC Officer. This is the downfall of many travellers as they expect HMRC Officers to be professional but sadly this is rarely the case. This particular officer made no attempt to get to the facts as can be seen by the transcript. He was obviously mentally ticking boxes in order to confiscate the goods ... nothing more, nothing less.

    Maths are indeed very important and l agree that maths from some of these HMRC Officers is not a high standard. Strange how the results they come to are always in their favour ... unless you correct them.

    So folks, do your maths/dates before you set off on your shopping trip. Check them and then check them again. Then wrte them down and take them with you ... with a copy. Write them down so you understand them and when stopped by HMRC, give them a copy. Maths don't lie, they are either correct or wrong ... period!

    Most guys don't know the ins and outs of their home finances as their wives do them. The guys give the wives their money and then get some pocket money :) So tell HMRC this, it's natural and most people do it. Turn it round and ask the HMRC Officer if he knows the mortgage, rates, utility bills. Questions can be directed at them ... you have a right to do this.

    Once the HMRC Officer can't use maths against you he has very little to work with .... and don't forget, no story telling! The less you say, the less they have. Facts only and then shut up!

    ReplyDelete

"In the eyes of the Tribunal the review letter contained several preconceptions, prejudgments and non-sequiturs"

"the absurdity of this reason is demonstrated by simply stating it"

"We therefore find that Mr Sked misdirected himself as to the Policy in carrying out the review and his decision is therefore one that no reasonable review officer could have arrived at."

... commonly known here at N2D as 'Skeds' ... that is to say these are Judges comments regarding UKBA Review Officer Ian Sked's reasons for rejecting peoples appeals against seizures.

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