Well, actually he doesn't say anything yet. Simon Clark, director of FOREST (voice and friend of the smoker) recently posted about the budget here. It got a lot of comments (currently 63) and some interesting points. Amongst them was a suggestion that FOREST have a tobacco run to Belgium which a number of people thought a great idea, as indeed l do. The current last post is mine :-
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53 comments:
"In the eyes of the Tribunal the review letter contained several preconceptions, prejudgments and non-sequiturs"
"the absurdity of this reason is demonstrated by simply stating it"
"We therefore find that Mr Sked misdirected himself as to the Policy in carrying out the review and his decision is therefore one that no reasonable review officer could have arrived at."
... commonly known here at N2D as 'Skeds' ... that is to say these are Judges comments regarding UKBA Review Officer Ian Sked's reasons for rejecting peoples appeals against seizures.
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What's the betting that The British Legion/Age Concern/Help For Heros/any charity would all run screaming from any such 'donation'?
ReplyDeleteProb so, but then we'll go direct to the old boys/gals ourselves! :)
ReplyDelete"Prob so, but then we'll go direct to the old boys/gals ourselves! :) "
ReplyDeleteYou'd almost certainly have to as 'donating' the tobacco to an organization is PROBABLY, strictly speaking, illegal. You can 'gift' tobacco to family and friends but a 'donation' probably counts as 'commercial'...the same way you can't raffle duty-free stuff.
I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that'd be the case.
Oh l'd certainly look into the legal implications first. l have no intention of giving my 'enemies' ammunition to hit me with. :)
ReplyDeletevoice and friend of the smoker? you're havin a larf ain't ya?
ReplyDeleteA couple of years back I went round to see 'Baccy Bill' inorder to 'score'. That day he seemed a little upset and I asked him why. He told me that he'd been out on his 'rounds' cold calling and had knocked on the door of an 'al boar' ("Elderly Gentleman" for the English speakers among us) and offered to supply him and his wife with genuine GV at the then price of £6.50 a pouch.
ReplyDeleteThe old man actually broke down and sobbed in front of him. Seems he and his missus were both 30 a day 'woodbiners'. Both on the basic state pensions and with Council Tax and heating costs were literally malnourished.
Oh and the bloke had spent some time in a Jap POW camp which cost him his youth and health.
Makes one wonder about how this cunt-ry treats its OAP's and Vets. Makes me wonder anyways...and I'm about as far as one can get from being one of the poppy clad sheeples.
Forest always have been a sheep in wolf's clothing. Simon likes to be with the elite in the HOC. God forbid he actually does something that would put that in jeopardy. Anon 12.36 is spot on.
ReplyDeleteCharter a jet round-trip, same day out, same day back, a few hours layover in Brussels with a chartered bus to take everyone from the airport to the tobacco shop and back to the airport for the flight home. Do a small mark-up on cost to fund advertising, virtually free if done online and local flyer handouts. If enough people sign on, run it once or twice a month at first. In time it will become newsowrthy in and of itself. If it's perfectly legal, nobody can do a thing to stop it except look like a fool for complaining.
ReplyDeleteForget it SH, Simon Clark is just ignoring and burying it. The voice and friend of the smoker is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
ReplyDeleteAnon 16.25 on the other hand we could just go on the ferry? :0)
Looked all over this guy Simons site all it is is a source of income to him imho. He's running scared of his sponsers. Nowt but a pussy. Face it guys we're on our own so get used to it cos forest ain't gonna do anything. Look after yourselves anyway you can. Fuck the lot of them!
ReplyDeleteDivision among the millions of disenfranchised smokers is the last thing we need. We must make common cause and set aside differences. Division is just what they want.
ReplyDeleteCount me in on the bacca trip - I'll watch this space.
George ... l couldn't agree more. l just thought the suggestion of FOREST running a trip hit all the bases especially so soon after the budget. Quite a few said they'd be up for it so l couldn't and can't understand why Simon is quiet on it.
ReplyDeleteA trip like that would almost definitely attract media attention and if handled correctly would be positive attention that could do a lot of good ... isn't that an opportunity not to be missed?
Strike whilst the iron's hot and all that?
I'd be quite happy to supply and drive my van with 6 seats and lots of 'cargo' space, if anyone wants to make a round trip.
ReplyDeleteSeems like a no-brainer to me.
Anon 23.28 ... drop us a line please
ReplyDeleteinfo@nothing2declare.co.uk
Thanks
l always liked Forest but l find it difficult to understand the silence on this particular issue. Perhaps Simon does not read all the comments?
ReplyDeleteSimon probably started out with good intentions, but now he's just a bloke with a cushy job. He doesn't make waves. He represents those smokers who are ashamed of themselves. "Please don't hurt us quite so much, we're sorry, honestly."
ReplyDeleteAs my Ol' Nan was want to say: "He who pays the Piper calls the tune". FORESTS funding comes, the lion's share any roads, from the tobacco industry. Nothing wrong with that per se and Simon has never made a secret of it. The tobacco industry calls the shots and what you have to realise is that they (The ciggy makers) DON'T REALLY CARE over much about the Northern European market. Its too much hassle for them for the amount it profits them. Sure, its still brings in money but a decreasing amount every year for increasing stress. Asia and the 3rd World is where the action is at for them.
ReplyDeleteIf they really wanted to reverse the situation here in Europe then the tobacco companies would be doing things like laying on free flights and ferries themselves. There'd be a BAT coach leaving your town's market square once a month to Belgium.
SBC
ReplyDeleteSimon should change Forest's site to "Voice and Friend of the Tobacco Industry" and stop pretending to be something he clearly is not.
You think Tim? put Simons a tosser in his comments and see how long it lasts
ReplyDeleteSBC is right. It's the tobacco companies who should be organising the coach trips. It would be good business sense.
ReplyDeleteBig Tobacco tries desperately to remain respectable. It's a lost cause, they need to come out fighting.
Hoverspeed knew whose side they were on. The customer's, on behalf of their shareholders
Am l right in thinking Simon does not smoke? Nothing really wrong with that, its just like a man in being charge of a lesbian lobby group. Just sayin :-)
ReplyDeleteCall me a cynic but the fact that Forest has a press office in W1 tells you all you need to know about it.
ReplyDeleteThe days when you needed to rent office space to have somewhere to put the hand crank Mimeo, kettle and a telephone line are long gone.
Campaign headquarters are cars, your 'desk' is in Starfucks, canteen is called 'Pret', and you don't shag the young female 'groupies' on a placard covered floor these days (NOT implying that Simon does)...which was the other reason for having a Press Office. Nowadays we all just 'cyber' with Stephen Fry on Twitter.
PS I'm sending Simon a copy of this comment if I can find his Teleprinter number...
Ouch! ... l just wondered if you guys thought a FOREST tobacco trip was a good idea? :)
ReplyDeleteJudging by the reponses and indeed lack of response, l think l'll be diplomatic and try to refrain from posting about them in future.
Don't think l'll be on their Xmas card list now but l value the views of you guys as l value all views even though l may not agree with some of them.
l'll still stand by my original post.
I would expect UKBA to be under government pressure to increase their intimidation and illegal tobacco seizures in an attempt to scare people away from tobacco buying holidays. That's where the action will be.
ReplyDeleteWoodsy 42
ReplyDeleteExcept we are constantly told that the Chinese and other gangs are bringing in counterfeit tobacco/cigarettes and that is the major problem. The myth about conterfeit tobacco is that it's toxic. That's plainly ridiculous because you dont kill off your customer base whether it be because the product is toxic or just tastes foul. Word spreads quickly if a product is no good and that's bad for business.
The government's real issue is that none of this smuggled tobacco/cigarettes is EU Duty paid. Think about it, the amounts that are brought in are clearly not for personal use so if found it's confiscated ... period. Now as a gang you know this and it's a risk, a risk of losing a shipment and that means money. Now do you increase the amount of risk in monetary terms by purchasing your goods EU duty paid? .... of course not. The product comes from outside the EU .... less cost >>more profit.
What they do at the borders has no effect on this type of smuggling. What they are doing ia already illegal so the gov can bring in as many restrictions as they like ... to the smuggling gangs it matters not a jot. Except for one thing, if you stop legitimate shoppers buying what they are legally entitled to do, a not small percentage of these shoppers will become the gangs customers. So in efect, the smuggling gangs are all for restrictions at the border.
lt's as though the gov and the gangs are in business together. l could myself bring in a system quite easily that would seperate the legal shopper from the smuggler to a very large degree ... so could the goverment but the fact is they don't want to. The cross border shopper is being used as PR by the government to say 'look we are doing something'. ln reality they are ... and that's harassing, intimidating and robbing it's own citizens. Mr Smith, 70 yr old and his 3kg of tobacco are targeted, robbed and then it's proclaimed he's smuggling. No evidence that he actually is and no court of the land could ever convict him of such. This goes on day-in, day-out.
Maybe it's time for rubber dingies without headlights crossing the channel in the wee hours of morning using small quiet electrified motors for propulsion.
ReplyDeleteHi guys just back from baccy alley today, there is still major supply problems in adinkerke as folows...
ReplyDelete1. Gv is a ball ache to purchase at the mo, some shops you have to purchase another brand to qualify to purchase like amount of gv ie; 1 carton of lamberts u can then get 1 box of 10 gv.
2. amber leaf and cutters also hard to come bye but not on the same scale as per problem as gv.
3. two shops i visited would supply 60 pouch per person but at the increased price of £48 ( still alot cheaper than rip off uk ? ).
Alot of the shop owners i talked are not expecting the supply issues to lighten up any time soon due to the pressure by the uk gov ( ukba) wankers.
If you do visit i would recommend getting there as early as possible to avoid the stampede, good luck.
keep up the good work guys.
Anon 16:27, thanks for the Heads Up.
ReplyDeleteBUT this is where Simon/Forest should really be campaigning and going viral. ...if he wasn't in hock to the tobacco industry.
Someone needs to start a 'NO 2 GV IN THE UK' campaign. Targeting every retail outlet and every RYO smoker in the UK.
Boycott GV in the UK and boycott Adinkerke, go further inland and buy a different brand.
I'm mystified by this. Whatever happened to "supply and demand"? Why is Big Tobacco appeasing UKBA by restricting supply abroad? It won't do them any good.
ReplyDeleteThe EU is all about free trade. Any interference with that, including by our government, breaks fundamental EU law. Big T must know that, they have legal depts. Why are they just rolling over?
Zaphod, they , the Big T, are scared shitless that they'll suddenly have to pay damages to every cancer sufferer. So far the governments have protected them from claims but that's the threat government has hanging over their corporate heads.
ReplyDeleteHi 'SH' Get in touch please mate, I've somehow lost your email address!
ReplyDeleteSBC ... Government blackmail such as Imperial Tobacco to not supply EU with GV with the intent of financial gain for the Government (stopping UK citizens buying abroad and forcing them to pay extortionate UK prices for their preferred brand).
ReplyDeleteSounds like the Government need to be in the dock. :)
SH, the principle of being able to purchase your favourite brand and the spinelessness of the Tobacco Firms aside, let's be honest and admit that any real smoker will smoke used tea leaves if needs must or EVEN French tobacco . Sure we all have our favourite brands but there aren't many smokers who can only smoke one certain brand...especially among us manly RYO smokers whose throats are by definition case hardened.
ReplyDeleteWe need to counter the governmental blackmail with some of our own ie boycott GV not only in the BNL but in the UK too. Boycotting Adinkerke would have first the town major and right behind him or her the Regional Government screaming at the Tobacco Firms.
Brugge is what? An hour further down the motorway? Let GV and Adinkerke stew in their own juice.
Something like 60% of the tobacco smoked in the UK is still UK Duty Paid, according to the government 'statistics' (what you and I would call 'lies'). I'm betting that a huge chunk of that 60% is GV. If GV saw their UK market share plummet overnight they'd 'man up' and face down the government over supplying baccy-run-shops.
SBC- Big T have been fighting the cancer-liability thing for decades. It never put a voluntary brake on their marketing effort before. Why now, just in the EU? Is it really just because the govt is losing money, and getting heavy? I'm reluctant to believe that. Naive, me?
ReplyDeleteOhi forgot to mention when we came back from Andinkerke to the tunnel of fear at dover ( where UKBA are on mass) we noticed they were pulling over alot of cars and all i could see were uk plate's.
ReplyDeleteOnly mention this as i think i read on here or over on day tripper that they only seem to target uk cars.
I smoke gv but as it is hard to get hold of i bought some FLANDRIA GOLDEN BLEND VIRGINIA as did my two mates and i tell you it is spot on as a replacement for gv and it only cost £3 a pouch, most shop oweners will let you try alternative brands for free, at £3 a pop we all bought a 100 each and a few gv we could get hold of, thats me for a good six months stocked up but i will be back over to restock the nazi UKBA don't scare us ( even tho they try there best the wankers).
Oh and another thing ( sorry for going on abit ) UKBA stopped alot of cars before getting on the ferry to leave for dunkirk, i heard from 3 young lads that they stopped them and warned them that if they bought tobacco products back they would be stopped and searched and if over the limit? they could have the tobacco and there CAR confiscated, these boys were bloody terrified as they were only going for baccy for themselves and some for there family/friends, i just hope they got back ok and unmolested by these fucking goons,.
It is a fucking disgrace the way we are treated when returning to our own fucking country me and my mates were saying on the way thro the tunnel of fear that if we were not english we could breeze thro no bother with drugs/bombs/weapons what ever totally unmolested as all the UKBA are botherd about is our baccy..............
Anons, you've taken the time to post here so thanks but it would be nice if you could just put a name instead of anon. You dont have to put any e-mail addy or anything ... just a name. We can then see your other posts. Thanks
ReplyDeleteAnon 10.19 ... Thanks for the info, it's appreciated by the readers and myself.
ReplyDeletel agree totally with your comments. For a longtime now l've been travelling with 3 seethrough ziplocked airtight bags (use 2) with coffee powder, coffemate and sugar ... all approx 1kg. Searched at airport security and by UKBA on numerous occassions and never once have they taken any notice of these.
l'm sure drug smugglers know this and so also carry baccy that the UKBA can get excited about.
From Dave Atherton
ReplyDelete@Shinar
I am no apologist for Simon Clark, but he mainly works out of Forest's Cambridge office and I believe his office in W1 is very small and keeps it on if he has to meet people in Central London.
On tobacco companies being sued in the UK it is highly unlikely. In 2005 Imperial Tobacco won a landmark case in MsTear VS Imp Tobacco where in law it is not established that smoking causes lung cancer beyond reasonable doubt.
The judge said McTear's case "..had failed on every single count.."
Tobacco companies are excluded in the western world from virtually all consultations and if they were to be more strident and assertive the WHO and other anti smoking groups would round on tobacco companies and probably pass even more draconian laws and depriving them of their profits.
@ Dave Atherton
ReplyDeleteSimons business operations are not at question, that's his own personal choice. What has surfaced by commentators is the banner under which Forest operate ... 'Voice and friend of the smoker'. The commentators question that.
As for the tobacco companies l think it's about time they realised that people buying their tobacco abroad are entirely legal and is in fact fighting smuggling ... no money for 'white van man' and the 'Chinese Counterfeit Gangs. lsn't that what the tobacco companies and UKBA want?
Their current strategy is more helpful to these criminal gangs ... so much so that one could think that they are actually involved in it. Yes l know they are not but their strategy is.
lf they continue down this avenue of harassing and intimidating UK shoppers they will lose more custom. Also if the EU round on these tobacco companies as you say, the result will be that former Eastern Bloc countries will fill the void created. These former Eastern Bloc countries are not so submissive as the Western tobacco companies.
Then of course we have Russia who are already covering the whole of the EU with a product that is not even on legitimate commercial sale anywhere.
WHO should be careful what they wish for ... they just might get it! What then? fight these former Eastern Bloc countries and Russia? Hah, best of luck with that ... it's Mafia central from the bottom to the very top!
For example Bulgaria, they had over 200 assassinations in ONLY a year or so ... guess how many have been solved and the perpetrators brought to justice or even just arrested? Answer is ZERO!
@ David Atherton
ReplyDeleteThanks for long and informative post. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an 'enemy' of Simon and he does do some sterling work within the narrow remit his backers set him.
However can you imagine the Today program announcing "FOREST calls for UK smokers to boycott GV"?
No you can't because it would never happen. And that's the problem with FOREST and its being backed by Big Tobacco.
As to the legals and cancer compensation; the answer is in the phrase 'the judge said'. So far the Tobacco companies have won a few legal battles but they themselves know that at some point they will lose the legal war because, in the final instance, it all comes down to how one judge or two interpret the law. The fact that there have been trials at all scares them.
The first commandment reads (in litigation)"You never know which way a court is going to jump and always settle beforehand if you can". That's actually in the bible somewhere too.
What happens if in the next minor revision of the 'sue-ing laws' the government changed some clause somewhere, maybe changed a phrase saying 'proof positive' to 'on balance'? That's all they need to threaten the tobacco companies with.
ps. just woken up so apologies if this post is a bit incoherent.
Ok my eyes have now focused and after a pot of coffee and several smokes (Spanish GV as it happens)I can now think in something approaching English, t-shirt slogan language that it is.
ReplyDeleteSeems I made a mistake in my last comment. The First Commandment actually reads that: Human flesh and blood is sacred until there is no more food...
...oh come on, I can't be the only fan here! :P
Probably no more heroes, SBC
ReplyDeleteSH, very likely but I still don't have the money round to buy a Morry Thou...or pay brit fag prices either for that matter.
ReplyDelete(knew there had to be someone with taste here!)
...committed for insanity and crimes against the soul?
ReplyDeleteWTF? Simon Clarks latest post is about Fortnam and Mason! Real voice of the fucking smoker ain't he? twat!
ReplyDelete@prop, added to his deafening silence about the 'forset baccy run' his F&M post just serves to confirm his lack of credibility to claim he is the voice of the smoker.
ReplyDeleteSH and the other 'liberty bloggers' are far more credible but not as well funded.
Can't think why Simon's silent on the baccy run suggestion (I posted on his blog that I'd be up for it, too, although my costs escalate if something's organised from London). Simon's a courteous guy yet I feel that he sometimes treats his blog posters dismissively. Would've been nice if he'd acknowledged the interest.
ReplyDeleteJay
PS Having read about UKBA I'm almost too feart to go on a baccy trip on my own :[
Jay, you needn't be. You just need to be prepared and stick to the facts and not deviate or rabbit on, then you'll be fine.
ReplyDeleteNeed any help, just ask. Glad to help.
Thanks, SH
ReplyDeleteJay
We need Forest representing us like we need a hole in the head. Forest are holding us back, wake up people!
ReplyDeleteWhat we, the UK Smoker, do perhaps need is someone living in Belgium, preferably in the baccy run region, who could keep us all up to date. A weekly 'post card from Adinkerke'. Maybe someone who reads this blog lives there or goes there on a weekly basis? Someone to tell us what shops have what stock, opening hours, restrictions, interesting offers etc etc
ReplyDeleteSH you're doing a good job - don't let the bastards grind you down ok?
ReplyDelete@JJ .... Thanks ... it's like being savaged by a dead sheep .... no probs! :)
ReplyDelete